Indeed, indeed, indeed.
All right, everybody, welcome to today's discussion
of Medical Doctors for COVID Ethics International.
This group was founded by Dr. Stephen Frost
over three years ago with the desire
to pursue truth, ethics, justice, freedom, and true health.
Stephen has stood up against government power
over the years and has been a whistleblower and activist.
His medical specialty is radiology.
I'm Charles Kovest, the moderator of this group.
I'm Australasia's passion provocateur,
and we love passionate people in these meetings,
and Gerry Waters is one of them.
I practiced law for 20 years before changing career
31 years ago, and over the last 13 years,
I've helped parents and lawyers to strategize remedies
for vaccine damage and damage from bad medical advice.
The latest data I've seen is that bad medical advice
is now the number one killer of human beings in America.
I'm also the CEO of an industrial hemp company.
We comprise lots of professions here
and we're from all around the world.
Many of us thought that vaccines were okay.
Now, many of us proudly say, and I'm one of them,
that we are passionate anti-vaxxers.
And I assure you that I've yet to meet a parent
who refused to vaccinate their children,
who regrets that decision.
I'm yet to meet one.
If this is your first time here, welcome,
and feel free to introduce yourself in the chat
and where you're from.
If you publish a newsletter or a podcast,
or you have a radio or TV show, or you've written a book,
put the links into the chat so we can follow you,
promote you, and find you.
Most of us understand we're in the middle of World War III
and that the medical science battle is only one
of 12 battlefields of this latest World War.
And to that end, well, I make the observation
that the game plan of our opponents in World War III
is to get us focused on whether or not,
whether there is, or whether there is not a virus,
or whether you should treat this way,
that in the meantime, the evil that's going on
in 11 other battlefields, we ignore.
So this group covers all 12 of those battlefields,
including holding to account officials
for what they've done.
Many of us, most of us understand the development of science
and that the science is never settled.
Some of us believe that viruses exist,
some of us believe that viruses are a hoax,
and some of us are on the fence.
And Jerry, you were talking about the Nuremberg Code,
the abuse of human rights is so far,
so hugely more important than this question
of whether or not viruses exist.
It's a wonderful distraction.
We can go down the rabbit hole.
This, we will listen to our guest presenters today,
Dr. Emmanuel Garcia, originally from the US,
now living in New Zealand,
whose resume is on the show notes.
I don't go through those slavishly,
because most of you have received invitations and read them,
but read the show notes.
So we will listen to Emmanuel,
calls himself Manny for as long as Manny wishes to speak,
and then we have Q&A.
Stephen Frost, via long established tradition,
asks the first questions for 15 minutes.
This is a free speech environment
with appropriate moderating.
Free speech is crucially important in our fight
to preserve our human freedom.
And many people lost their jobs
because they exercised free speech.
We don't, however, allow ad hominem attacks,
and that means you're attacking the person.
That's what they do in parliament.
We don't allow that here.
We attack ideas.
We question ideas.
We discuss ideas.
We don't attack the people here.
If you're offended by anything, be offended.
We are lovingly not interested.
We reject the offence industry
that requires nobody to say anything
that may offend another.
We want to have a attitude and perspective of love,
not fear.
Fear is the opposite of love.
Fear squashes you.
Love, on the other hand, expands you.
Our opponents in this World War III
want you to be very, very frightened
of something you can't see.
These twice weekly meetings are not just talk fests.
An extraordinary range of actions and initiatives
have been generated from linkages made by attendees
to meetings.
If you have a solution or a product or links or resources
that will help people put the details into the chat,
I note that one of our regular participants,
Jerome Corsi, Robert Malone announced
that his book on the assassination of JFK
was released yesterday.
So for those of you who didn't pick that up, check it out.
So his book that we've been waiting to be released
has now been released.
Dave Colum, I look forward to you analyzing
what Jerome said there.
I must say I'm persuaded, I have no doubt,
that JFK was assassinated,
not by a guy in the book depository.
What's his name, Lee?
The other one.
Lee Oswald, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Lee Harvey.
I have no belief that that's what happened,
and Jerome scientifically shows it didn't happen.
The meeting is recorded and is uploaded
onto the Rumble channel.
I point out an interesting commentary
from Sukrit Bhakdi's presentation two days ago.
Mike Yeaton has put a comment there.
There's a whole string of comments there
of people who are, I urge you all to have a look at it
because there's a lot of people there coming there,
including Mike Yeaton, saying the whole question of viruses
is, anyway, a very interesting conversation.
And now welcome to our guest presenters today,
Emmanuel Garcia.
We thank you so much, Manny,
for giving us your time, wisdom, and insights.
And thank you, Steve and Frost, again,
for creating this group and for organizing
Manny to be with us today.
Manny, you are a co-host.
You can share your screen if you wish.
We are in your hands for as long as you wish
to share your thoughts with us.
And I point out, everybody, in the show notes,
you'll see that Manny publishes
on Global Research Newsletter.
It was Michelle Shoshinovsky who recommended
from Global Research Newsletter,
who recommended Manny to us.
And Michelle's work is well worth being a subscriber to.
I'm a subscriber to it.
I always urge the rest of you to do so,
and you can find those links in the notes.
Manny, over to you.
Charles, I think it's fair to say
that Michelle Shoshinovsky is probably
the best analyst in the world, or one of them, anyway.
And he's certainly the most courageous.
Very good, Steve.
Good point, excellent point.
Yep, thank you.
Yes, I would second that.
Michelle was wonderful, and his work was wonderful.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
I feel quite privileged to be in this truly august company.
And Charles, your introduction pretty much
sums up everything.
I'm not sure what I can add to that.
But I'll flesh in the details, my personal details,
and give you a little sense of the story here in New Zealand,
as well as some of my observations generally.
Let me just introduce myself
and give people a little bit of a biographical background.
I was born and raised in the States, from Philadelphia.
I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania
School of Medicine in 1986.
Got my MD there.
And as a full-fledged doctor, went
into psychiatric residency and psychoanalytic training.
And I practiced really as a Freudian analyst
and a psychiatrist until I emigrated to New Zealand in 2006.
Before that, in terms of my educational interests,
I actually studied languages and literature and the classics,
Latin and Greek.
And I attended Trinity College and had
a wonderful time in Dublin.
I have the fondest memories of Dublin.
And I was at one point in my life a James Joyce fanatic.
And I probably could have recited half
of a portion of the artist verbatim and parts of Ulysses.
So we'll leave that aside.
So I have other interests in fiction and theater
and poetry and whatnot.
And Charles, you mentioned the assassination of JFK.
I was privileged to know two people who
were instrumental in uncovering some facts
about that assassination from Philadelphia, Harold Feldman,
who was the person who first put the grassy knoll on the map.
And he was a psychoanalyst.
And Vince Solandria, very, very well-known JFK researcher.
He went through all of the Warren Commission report.
And his work is foundational.
There's no question that the lone gunman
from the book depository was not the whole story.
But I will say, I bring this up because the very first poem
that I remember having written was
in the aftermath of JFK's assassination.
It's not a great poem.
I remember two or three lines, and I won't repeat them.
But I think I was 10 or 11, 10 at the time, 9 at the time,
whatever it was.
In any case, in my family, however,
and this was a family that voted for Nixon, believe it or not,
in the 1960 election, it was widely
assumed that the assassination was probably
coordinated by LBJ.
And that's a working class Italian-American family.
And that was the word at the time,
right in the aftermath of the assassination.
So it's very interesting to put that out.
Now, as far as any expertise I can bring,
I'm thinking back, I can't say I'm
much of an expert in anything.
I think I was a good psychiatrist.
And from 2006 until 2021, I worked
in the public sector in psychiatry
here in New Zealand and did some psychiatric liaison work
with primary care practices and low-decel communities.
And I really love that part of it.
But the system itself is very, very troubled and very, very
broken.
And it's hard to reform and hard to salvage.
Before I get to how I resigned and why I resigned,
I wanted to bring up this issue of expertise
because I was thinking a lot last night about practicing
as a psychoanalyst meant listening not just
with the third ear but with all kinds of levels
simultaneously to people talk, hopefully un-underruptedly,
for 50 minutes per session.
That's seven to 10 sessions a day.
And I did this for years, for over a decade, 15 years,
just about.
And I thought to myself that there's no other,
I can find no parallel in the world
for that kind of an experience where you devote yourself
to listening in this holistic way with your mind,
your soul, the different levels of hearing,
and the quest of gaining insight into the person lying
on the couch and speaking freely with free association
and translating those insights in a way
that a patient could hear to foster self-development.
And the goal of self-analysis really is self-analysis.
So it's the least intrusive, least coercive treatment
imaginable.
But it honed these listening abilities like nothing else.
And so I think I have that.
I feel tremendously privileged to have been able to do that
and to have developed these kinds of abilities.
And I think if there's any kind of expertise I have,
it's in this area of being able to comprehend, apprehend,
absorb, and out of that absorption,
come up with something that may be insightful.
So that's about it.
Aside from that, when I practiced psychiatry here
in New Zealand, as I said, working with patients
was always a delight.
And the patient population I worked with in New Zealand,
going from complete private practice in the States
to public psychiatry and dealing with people
in the throes of mania and psychosis
and terrible depression and all kinds of social ills,
I actually loved it.
I loved it because I loved the patients.
I loved being able to help them and to bring my skills
to patients, even though our tools were
relatively few and blunt.
Nonetheless, when COVID rolled around, I, like many of you,
when I heard the story about the bat and the bat soup
and I saw the images from China and the whole full court
press of fear and whatnot, I was very dubious.
And I, very, very suspicious, I began
to write letters to Parliament here, to the Prime Minister.
I invade against their nonsensical approach,
which eliminated natural immunity.
I did not mention one thing about treatment whatsoever.
That has always been the big, important element
to what I talk to people about.
Why, in the midst of a so-called pandemic,
would there not be a race for symptomatic relief and cure
and competition to help people?
Instead, the advice was, stay home, lock yourself up.
If you find you can't breathe, come to hospital.
There's no way to describe this kind of insanity
of an approach to that.
So anyway, I wrote letters.
I tried to get to the politicians.
I always got these formal thank yous, but no actual engagement.
And I began to make a few videos with a local group, Voices
for Freedom, a very important group here in the New Zealand
landscape, and whatnot.
And my psychiatrist-in-chief daubed me
into the medical council because I had the temerity
to talk about having reservations about the jab
and the temerity to talk about early treatment
and natural immunity and the lack of science
behind masks and distancing and lockdown, the usual thing.
And in any case, I resigned in October 2021
before the mandates came in.
I had a big cross on my back at that time,
and they were going to make my life difficult there.
And I decided, well, this is the time to just get out
of the system, which was crumbling before my eyes
anyway.
And then I had a union rep who helped me
through the resignation, a very nice guy.
And when it came to renewing my license, which
would be in November, he said, oh, that's just the formality.
Everything's fine.
You might as well keep your license, keep practicing,
do private practice, do some whatever.
And lo and behold, when I did go to renew my practicing
certificate, I found that it had been suspended.
So I was one of three doctors whose, as Jerry said,
his heads were kind of put on a stake at the very beginning
to make sure that other doctors in New Zealand, the other 20,000
or so, wouldn't say a word about anything
and go against the narrative that was being promulgated.
At that time, I did engage with lawyers from Medical Protection
Society for a little bit.
And I found that I was having to do most of the work myself.
And I made a decision to exit the corrupt system altogether.
I didn't want to be part of it.
It meant giving up my license, giving up my career, et cetera.
But I just didn't see any other way to continue
in this kind of a system.
There is a catch, though.
The medical counsel here supposedly
doesn't allow you to leave the medical counsel while there
is a professional conduct complaint.
And a professional conduct complaint
had been laid because I was practicing
outside the scope of my profession,
outside the scope of psychiatry, by engaging
in intelligent exchanges and videos about health matters
and whatnot.
Kind of ridiculous.
So I deregistered via a kind of convoluted and lengthy common law
or equity law approach.
And I succeeded.
And I was able to get off their books altogether,
which I have to say was quite an achievement given
how they behaved, how they continue to behave.
And since that time, I've given lots of talks.
I've written a lot.
I've supported the cause here in many ways.
I was part of the Parliament protest, which
I want to dwell on a little bit because they were extremely
important here in New Zealand.
And I've been a founding member of New Zealand doctors
speaking out with science, a really good organization that
is fighting the good fight, et cetera, et cetera.
So the other people in New Zealand
who have been working really hard,
I want to mention Linda Wharton, Liz Lambert, Erica Whittam,
the girls, the ladies from VFF, Claire Deeks, Ali and Libby,
and the people at New Zealand doctors, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think in general, I mean, I felt this is now four years.
Oh, yeah.
And one of the things I really wanted to mention too was that
in March of 2020, there was an error
that I gave to you, Charles and Stephen,
in that little blurb I sent.
The interview, my friends Libby Handros and John Kirby
began a series called Perspectives on the Pandemic.
And in March of 2020, they interviewed John Ioannidis,
a very famous epidemiologist from Stanford.
I'm sure all of you know about him.
And at that time, he said, despite the obfuscation
and erroneous nature of the PCR test and everything else,
that what he was seeing was something
that was no worse than a bad seasonal flu.
And that was a very pivotal piece of information
to come out very early on from an extremely
authoritative source.
They also, in their series of perspectives,
interviewed two doctors.
I forget their names.
They're called the Bakersfield duo.
They were two doctors, I think, in California,
and in the ER, running an ER clinic.
And they said, we're not seeing anything.
It's not a big deal.
They put themselves on the line to tell the truth about this.
And that just cemented my own conviction
that what we were under was a massive hoax that
had some kind of other agenda.
Now, I'd like to say, yeah, I'm not really,
you know, it didn't take a genius to figure
this kind of stuff out.
It just took a little basic common sense.
And you look at all the aberrations that occurred,
the aberrations and how medicine all of a sudden
got turned upside down, where there was no informed consent.
For example, the medical council in 2019
sent out a strongly worded missive
to everybody about the tremendous importance
of informed consent.
If you don't provide informed consent,
you could be liable to all kinds of action.
It's the critical, this, that, the other.
Several months later, when it came to the jab,
they basically eviscerated informed consent altogether
and sent out this strangely worded, mealy mouth,
the abjuration of informed consent,
telling everyone you have to,
you can't say anything negative about the jab.
Really, this is unbelievable.
And that, but, and I'll get to the medical council
and their ties to the Federation of State Medical Boards,
which is critically important to understand
why this is a globally coordinated event.
I'll get to that in a little, a few seconds.
So, so here we are on four years,
and I think, I think we're tired.
I think that we felt depressed.
I think that the smell of fear continues,
and the real pandemic was this forced pandemic of fear
to make people absolutely afraid of everything.
I mean, I was, I can't believe how cowardly
my fellow people could be,
afraid to look at their shadows,
afraid to walk outside, afraid, I mean, I wasn't,
but that was the, the, the Psiops was so effective
that people succumbed.
In New Zealand, we had it really tough.
They had, we had terrible lockdowns.
I mean, unbelievable periods of lockdown,
during which I, as a practitioner, however,
continued to make home visits.
I was on leave at the time of the first lockdown.
I volunteered at a local PHO, a public health organization,
and did home visits, did prescriptions and things.
I never wore a mask.
I refused to wear a mask,
and I went out and I did my thing.
But we had, we had two periods of severe lockdowns,
and then our hypocritical prime, former prime minister,
you know, ordered these mandates,
and then she engineered an apartheid society,
where those who were unjabbed could not go to the theater,
could not go to a restaurant, could not get a haircut,
could not do virtually anything.
And I can't quite describe how onerous that felt
and how oppressive that felt.
Fortunately, I was able to manage to do what I needed to do,
despite my non-jab status.
And we have a very strong group of people
who form musicians and other people as well,
from various backgrounds, who support each other.
And we were able to meet during this extended period
of kind of mad times in New Zealand
with the traffic light system and whatever.
But it was very disheartening to see so many
of the fellow citizens, and by the way,
I'm a dual citizen of the United States and New Zealand,
fall into this and buy everything
that the single source of truth, as Jacinda Ardern
specified herself and her government about COVID.
Imagine the single source of truth, okay?
Anytime you get suppression of dissent,
then you know there's an agenda.
So I need not tell everybody about that.
Well, let me get, I wanna talk a little bit about questions
I get asked all the time.
Oh, you're a psychiatrist, you gotta tell us about this.
You gotta tell us about psychology of this.
So I said, well, I'm a psychiatrist,
you got your own common sense.
But let's look at this issue that got a lot of purchase
a few years ago called mass formation
to describe how so many people
bought into what was going on.
And I've written about this in my sub stack a little bit
and followed it.
Let's take the perspective of an ordinary person
whose reality has been pretty much
through the mainstream media.
They followed the big channels, they listened to ABC, NBC,
or Hear New Zealand, Radio New Zealand,
and whatever the channels are.
I don't have a TV, so I don't really follow them
and all that.
And their reality is defined by what they've been listening
to for years, for decades, and sometimes for generations.
In a way, it's kind of reminiscent to me of Plato's,
the allegory of Plato's cave in the Republic,
which I think is probably the single most profound
psychological, philosophical statement
in all of Western history and Western philosophy.
And I wanna go over this a little bit.
Remember, in the allegory of the cave,
you have people who are chained in a dark and damp cave,
and they're looking at shadows on a wall
that are being projected because images are moving
in front of a fire that's behind them.
And so a tree, a human being, or whatever,
they'll see these shadows on the wall,
and that's their reality.
One of the people there escapes from the cave
and finds out that actually there's a whole other world,
and that there's a sun out there,
and there's a world of light, and trees, and flowers,
and whatnot, and he's overwhelmed,
and out of compassion for his former
chained slaves in the cave,
he goes back to tell them about this.
He himself is now having a difficult time
in the confines of the cave,
and he's treated with skepticism,
and finally, the people in the cave
who are convinced that everything they've been seeing
is the truth and the only reality, plot to kill them.
So it's a tremendous metaphor,
and I think it works very well to explain
exactly what's happened to people around us.
I don't think it's a case of so-called mass formation.
I think it's a case of people whose reality
has been what they've seen and heard
from established sources,
and who cannot break themselves away from that reality,
and have a hard time admitting and acknowledging
that there is indeed any other reality beyond that.
I've lost friends over my position about COVID.
I think many of you must have as well.
I've had family disputes.
I've had one family member say,
"'You're crazy, and don't talk to me,
"'and you cannot talk to me about this ever again.'"
Right?
So I think that's the fallout,
and at a recent dinner with three other friends of mine
just last weekend, we were all sort of discoursing
on our former friendships, the friendships we've lost,
the former liberals that were so intelligent
and with whom we associated,
who were complete and utter Covidians
and would line up to get every jab possible.
And our feeling was, well, we've created new friendships,
we've made new alliances, and it's very, very hard
to continue an association with people
who fundamentally remain within a certain circumscribed box.
And I'll be quite frank with you, it's been very difficult.
As I said, I've had some friends of 40 years
email me and say, we're through,
like they're divorcing me, some sort of friendship.
I said, well, why can't you,
this is, can't you tolerate my opinion?
Speaking of which, in my rambling here,
I wanted to mention that the new virus issue came up,
and just yesterday, or the day before, I got an email,
and I wrote about this in my last upstack,
from someone who said,
unless I admitted that viruses didn't exist,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I was either a liar,
an ignoramus, or a controlled opposition.
So my response was, well, if I'm controlled opposition,
I've been accused of this before,
show me the money, I don't have a new car,
I haven't been on vacations, I'm scraping by,
show me all the emoluments I'm getting
from being such a controlled opposition,
such an influential person,
so to speak, so I'm either a liar, or an ignoramus,
or both, whatever, and what was so ironic is that,
here's a person, this is a person in the freedom movement,
supposed to be espousing the cause of freedom of expression,
and open debate, and open exchange,
who will not tolerate any divergence
from his or her opinion.
So if that's what you're gonna do,
you're no better than what we're up against,
which is a tyranny, and of that I have no doubt, okay?
I wanted to make a few comments about my substack
and the essays that I write.
I decided to have a substack because I wanted to have
a repository for things that I thought were worth preserving
in my writing, and I consider myself an essayist primarily,
although occasionally I will break a little story,
such as exemptions from the jab in New Zealand
and a few other things,
but I really don't write for,
I don't write for any agenda,
except what I believe I need to say,
or what I think is important to say.
I don't write to get subscriptions,
I don't write to get anything from anybody,
I don't even write for an audience.
I only write what I believe I feel I need to say,
and I think is worthy of expression, period.
So in that, it frees me up from any of the chains
that a lot of people, if you're a newspaper writer
and you gotta put an article out every week
and you got a certain audience segment
that you have to pitch to all the time,
you're always churning something out in a certain direction.
I don't have to do that, I don't have to write anything,
I don't have to do anything like that,
so I feel as if I'm as close to independence as I can be,
although there are always unconscious factors,
and you might be swayed by comments people make
that goes on no matter what.
But that's where I come from.
I've been particularly concerned with the use of power
and what power has done and what power does,
which is power is never satisfied with the power it has,
it always seeks to augment itself.
And we're in an age where the tremendous technological
and computational abilities that have occurred
allow the greatest exercise of power
with the least effort than ever in history.
You know, when Genghis Khan or Julius Caesar
were constrained by the technologies of their day,
which were rudimentary compared to ours
and which involved masses of men and armies
and the kind of force they exerted.
And here, the concentration of force and power
has been immense.
And I think we saw it deployed in COVID,
in the COVID operation.
With this, in this area too,
I wanted to comment a little bit about communications.
And I'll begin this with kind of an anecdote.
Way back in the 70s, I think, I went to my dentist
after I returned from Ireland.
And I was in the waiting room and I saw this magazine
on the tabletop and it was People Magazine.
It was this new thing.
I looked at it and I said,
my God, who's gonna read this crap?
And I just kind of threw it aside.
Well, as we know, People Magazine became
like an enormously huge hit, right?
20 years ago, when Facebook came out,
I said something similar like,
who the hell is gonna waste their time with this thing?
Well, all right, so I have some shortcomings
in my ability to perceive what's gonna be popular
and what's gonna reach people.
But what I've noticed though,
is that there has been in communication
and in reading and exchange,
there's been such an infantilization
of the way we communicate with the so-called social media.
I mean, this whole idea of anything you do
has to be rated or can be rated with a like or a dislike
or thumbs up.
This idea that people just wanna read what's current,
they don't wanna go beyond what's more than a day old.
This idea that things are too long,
TLDR, too long, didn't read.
People are getting used to just very short,
brief communications and not wanting to sit down
and really delve into something
and think about something and reflect upon something.
And the connection with the total surveillance,
there's almost nothing one can do nowadays
that is gonna be forgotten.
If you have some kind of slip when you're 25,
that's gonna be recorded somewhere
and it'll be held to account.
These social media accounts are being invaded
by other people and used against you.
We saw what happened with the Canadian truckers
and how their bank accounts were frozen.
So this total digital surveillance
and this infantilized feedback loop of small,
quick communication to me is kind of a nightmare,
but I don't think it's gonna go away anytime soon.
I don't have any solution for that
except that I try to keep that to a minimum.
I try to read, I tried to read in a considered way,
away from the screen and try to absorb things
and communicate things when I feel I've gathered enough heft
to communicate them.
In New Zealand, well, I mentioned briefly
the Federation of State Medical Boards.
I don't know how many people are aware
of the Federation of State Medical Boards.
It's a private organization founded in 1911
and it basically has assumed the role
of regulating all of the state medical boards
in the United States and through its international arm,
the International Association of Medical Regulatory Agencies
around the world.
Ireland is a member.
The Medical Council of New Zealand
is very strongly associated.
In fact, the former CEO of the Medical Council
is now the chair of the IAMRA,
the International Arm of the Federation
of State Medical Boards.
And I think this has been a mafia situation
where they have controlled
what is going on around the world.
So any doctors like Dr. Waters or Billy Rolfe or myself
or Peter Canaday here in New Zealand or Matt Shelton
who have dared to raise objections to the agenda
have been singled out, have been harassed, persecuted,
held up as examples and therefore,
everyone else has been silenced.
As I speak now, the Medical Council continues
to harass and persecute good colleagues
for things like having prescribed ivermectin,
having provided informed consent.
I mean, it's beyond insanity,
but it speaks to a frankly malicious purpose.
They're going after us, they continue to go after us,
they're relentless, they're charging people with huge fines.
I did an interview with Peter Canaday,
who was an American who was working here in New Zealand,
wonderful man, who was hold before
the Health Professionals Disciplinary Tribunal.
He composed a 70 page brief that was titanium clad
and so perfect in his defense.
And despite that, they found against him.
And he now is, they made it so that he can't even practice
in the states where he's returned because of malpractice,
he can't get malpractice insurance,
thanks to the brouhaha that occurred here
with the Medical Council and the HPDT.
So they're vicious, they're going after us
and we're trying to fight back.
The New Zealand doctors SOS has some legal stuff
in the works to go against the Medical Council.
We're trying to put our heads together to strategize,
but it's very difficult.
So that connection though, I've written about that
in my SUPSAC and Children's Health Defense.
And my friend Bruce Dooley has given a long interview
about the Federation of State Medical Boards.
He's also here in New Zealand from America.
And it's an organization to keep in mind
because they really are coordinating these various attacks
against physicians around the world, not just in the states.
Well, my impression generally about the whole COVID PsiOPS
is that I see no other explanation,
but that it was an organized affair.
It was globally coordinated.
The whole world was shut down.
I don't have any truck with people who say,
well, it was something that kind of
spontaneously arose organically and that,
the lockdowns just occurred because of an organic process
or people fell in line because of some spontaneous chicanery.
No, I think there's no question.
This was coordinated, it was deliberate.
I myself believe that there was a COVID virus
or some kind of pathogen that itself was somewhat harmful,
like the first shot of a two punch combination,
that the jab itself was deliberately manufactured
to be harmful and even lethal.
Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't variabilities
in the effects of the jab across the world.
And I think that we heard Dr. Bhakta yesterday,
the other day actually talked about the necessity
to keep the Pfizer, I know that in New Zealand,
we had the Pfizer jab initially,
and you had to keep it at sub-freezing temperatures
for it to be viable.
I can guarantee that they did not throughout all of New Zealand
keep those Pfizer jabs
in the appropriate refrigerated condition everywhere.
And that may account for a lot of the variability of response
and it may account for some of the variability of response
around the world as well.
In any case, I never saw any need to have a jab.
I thought it was unnecessary.
I thought it was potentially dangerous
at the very, very beginning.
And I think that my sentiments have been proved.
The final issue that I would bring up today
would be the issue of people are people
no matter where they are, no matter what groups they are,
whether in their, on our side or on the other side
or what have you.
And I'm very frustrated with the overly simplistic
and black and white thinking that has emerged
in the freedom movement, for example,
where I've heard such things as some people will say
that Big Pharma has never produced any medication
that's any good.
And I have to say, well, I don't know about that.
I'm not so sure about that.
I think there's a kind of a degeneration
into very simplistic primitive ways of thinking,
such as are characterized by that correspondent who told me
I've got to be, I'm a liar or ignorant
or a controlled opposition,
so I don't believe what he says.
No, we've got to really be civilized adults
and have an open exchange.
Now, this brings me to the parliament protests.
This is important.
I don't want to forget this.
We, in the aftermath of the inspiration
from the Canadian truckers here in New Zealand in 2022,
organized an occupation of parliament grounds
in February of 2022 that was ended
by an illegal police invasion,
I think in March 1st to March 2nd of 2022.
I was there every day.
I gave many talks.
I gave talks on the opening day for them
when the convoy came.
And it was a beautiful event that drew people
from all around the country in unified against mandates.
We were unified against the violation of human rights,
which I think is the fulcrum of everything.
There's a little story about this.
So since I don't follow general media, I didn't realize,
but we were portrayed as the worst of the worst.
It was considered to be the filthiest,
dirtiest bunch of people ever.
And the typical things you'd find from propaganda.
But in fact, I have to say it was the most important
social experience of my life to have been part of that,
that great gathering, beautiful gathering of people
united peacefully, lovingly for freedom.
And every time I gave a talk,
I would look, I'd go up and look at parliament
and ask someone to come down and have a word with us.
Not one time during that entire protest
did any member of government come down and say,
hey, let's talk.
Let's listen to what you have to say.
It's astonishing.
They indulge in pure tactics like blasting loud music
at nights so people couldn't sleep, loud, terrible music.
I mean, it was insane.
But think of this.
If I were prime minister,
wouldn't it have been a beautiful win for me to say,
okay, listen, let's go down, let's have a little chat.
And then I could tell everybody
I had this chat with these people.
Of course, they're all crazy, but we did our bit
and we were accommodating and we showed
how wonderful we are.
They couldn't even do that.
They made a determined effort
not to have any truck with anyone there,
not to have any exchange whatsoever.
But the protests, I think, were felt.
Now, two other things about that.
The day before that police invasion,
I was part of a negotiating team
that was to meet with the police
and Maori representatives and other people, lawyers,
to kind of negotiate a settlement
because the feeling had been,
this is going on now for a long time, over a month,
and we need to bring this to an end in some peaceful way
and let's talk.
And at the last minute, the police did not show up
to that negotiating session.
So I was driving home, I drove home by the police station
and lo and behold, the entire street
where the Wellington police station resides
had been full of these unmarked white vans,
white or gray vans.
I went right back to the protest grounds.
I told everybody I could.
I informed everyone, I said,
listen, they're getting ready to do something.
They're gonna come in tomorrow morning and be prepared.
Tell everybody, get the word out.
Hopefully we can, you know, do what you've gotta do.
I told every media person I knew, the filmmakers, everybody.
Half the people there said,
oh, don't worry about it, it's nothing.
The other half took me seriously.
And it turned out I proved right
because they came in and invaded the place the next morning.
But before that happened,
I went home and I was part of a Zoom session,
a Zoom meeting with the human rights commissioner
here in New Zealand, Paul Hunt.
And I was a silent observer to that.
And he went through this whole rigamarole
with all these people talking about the mandates
and the protests.
And I know from someone in his office that he was told
that he should make his presence felt
at the protests should any kind of police action occur
so as to protect human rights.
Actually, I'm fairly certain he knew
that the invasion was gonna occur the next morning.
And all he had to do was walk down there
and just be there as a presence
to prevent the brutality that occurred.
He didn't do that.
So the next morning, the police came in,
they fired rubber bullets at people,
they did all kinds of terrible things.
And it was a show of force that was a real stain.
And if those of you who are interested in this,
there's a wonderful film called River of Freedom
that I've put a link to in the material I sent to Charles
and Stephen.
And it's a beautiful film.
And that link, Manny, is on the invitation
that everybody got.
You didn't get an email invitation?
Oh, great, yeah, exactly.
Then ask. That's great, yeah.
And that's really, it's a really beautiful,
remarkable film.
And so anyway, so that's pretty much,
I think, what I have to say for today.
I really appreciated hearing Dr. Bhakdi the other day
as well, since he was one of the people
that my friends interviewed for their perspective series,
interviewed a lot of people.
And it's kind of like an historical record for posterity
of what we've been through, which is very valuable.
So.
Very good, Manny.
Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
I think it's a very important testimony.
And this recording will be valuable to a lot of people.
I cannot believe what happened in New Zealand and Australia.
Australia, not much different.
The militarized edition of police.
But one of the wonderful, wonderful things
you mentioned about the loss of friends,
we've all lost friends, but look at the hundreds
of new friends we've got on this platform, hey?
And all the other platforms that we're on.
And as we've often said in this group,
and I remind people watching this recording,
don't worry about the friends you've lost.
Look at the new friends you've got.
And the feedback I've had almost universally
is that the quality, the foundation for the new friendships
is a foundation built on freedom and truth
and ethics.
So it's a pretty powerful basis for having a relationship.
So when you get together with somebody,
you don't talk shit about football.
You talk about real stuff.
So it is truly a wonderful benefit.
The other wonderful benefit is that
I've been following the work of Del Bigtree
since he started, Andy Wakefield, from the early days,
for 13 years.
And this was brought to my attention
in my work as a legal strategist.
I was helping a lawyer in Australia.
And I was horrified 13 years ago
when I discovered the truth about vaccines.
And this lawyer was trying to help families in Australia.
And I'm wondering whether any of you in other countries
have this experience, but not one vaccine damage case
has succeeded in the courts in Australia ever.
And I also point out that not one proper test
has been done on the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
And in America, of course, since 1986,
we know the immunity given to pharmaceutical companies.
But COVID, look at the gift of COVID, everybody.
And I just urge us to, don't get down in the dumps.
I mean, there's some amazing stuff happening
on the border between Mexico and the US.
America is being invaded and Lee Vleet,
who's presented to us here.
This is urgent, urgent issue, everybody.
There are amazing young men ready to invade America.
And what COVID, the gift of COVID is how many people,
maybe 20% of the population, 30% of the population,
maybe more have been woken up many
to the dangers of these jabs.
That is an extraordinary gift.
Well, that's true.
Let me say this.
And Charles, let me say this.
You know, I've grown along.
I had my kids vaccinated with the usual schedules.
As a kid myself, I think I got three vaccinations,
the oral, the polio, the COVID,
and maybe the tetanus and diphtheria, whatever.
But I've only woken up relatively recently
to the truth about the whole schedule
of all of these vaccinations and the effects
and the work of Wakefield and RFK Jr.
and Judy Mikevitz, all these people.
I would never, I will never take another jab in my life.
I would never encourage anyone to take another jab
of any sort like this.
And so I would say, yeah, I'm a proud anti-vaxxer,
given what they've done with them,
given how they're used, given, you know,
but these were things we thought of as mother's milk.
When I went to medical school,
one of my first interviews was
with a renowned cardiologist, okay?
And he talked about his ideals
and Pasteur was his great idol.
And he recommended the biography by Valerie Radeau
about Pasteur because of vaccination.
And I read the biography, you know, and all that.
We were not told very much about vaccinations
in medical school at all, except that you just gave them
and they were wonderful.
They were like the apex of medical lists in a way.
So I grew up thinking, yeah,
I don't give them a second thought.
And now you're right.
We have all had our eyes open.
We can't not but have our eyes opened
to these kinds of things and to the immune system
and to how they're, what are they doing
to the immune system?
Forget about the mRNA, but just the ordinary schedule.
There's a lot to be learned.
And COVID has been the biggest litmus test in world history
and it has rent the veil behind the corruption
in front of the corruption of these institutions
that I used to revere, many of us revered,
we thought had our backs, were protective, were wonderful.
The CDC, the FDA, the NIAID,
all these great institutions here that conspired
to go against the people, to hurt us.
And that, right, so we're awake.
And I was reading this paper by Lurie Rushko,
I think you probably know about this.
He just wrote something very interesting,
tying things together.
We have to go from the great awakening to the great uprising.
And I hope we're on the verge of doing that.
And I believe that America is gonna lead the way
in that we need America.
I'm a constitutionalist, I was on an interview
with the Breggins and we were both talking
about how we viewed ourselves.
And I consider myself a constitutionalist.
I grew up in the city where the Declaration of Independence
was signed, constitution was formulated.
And the principles of those documents,
the principles are beautiful and immutable.
People tend to take principles and degrade them,
as we know, and abuse them.
I'm not talking about the abuse of degradation,
talking about the principles themselves.
Unalienable rights, we have unalienable rights.
Beautifully said, Manny, and that's what we have,
and that's why we come to these meetings,
to be reminded about your inalienable rights.
Okay, Stephen, next 15 minutes is all yours.
And gosh, Stephen, I know you could ask questions
for an hour and a half, so this is gonna be close.
So Emmanuel, that was a great presentation.
It was kind of low key, and you're very modest,
but beneath everything, you're very insightful,
I think, I think you know that.
And that's why Michel Strostovsky recommended you to me,
unconditionally, in fact, he chose you as the best,
the best in the world on this analysis that you've just done.
So he said I should get in touch with you.
I did get in touch with you, but just so happened
that you couldn't appear that particular day
that we had pre, and then I forgot, I'm sorry about that.
There are just so many suggestions,
so I can hardly keep up with the suggestions,
nevermind arranging it all.
So I wanted to ask you, I was very interested in you
talking about listening all day long, 50 minutes,
was it seven or eight sessions a day?
Or sometimes 10, yeah, yeah, sometimes 10.
10, wow.
That's a lot of listening in a day.
I don't think I could do that, but anyway,
I was quite good at listening, but I didn't,
I don't, even I would have said that I wasn't listening,
I interrupted people, but I was very good at kind of,
I realized now I was very good at picking up
the essence of what people were saying very quickly,
and then getting a bit, not bored,
but wanting to ask further questions.
You understand me?
Yeah, sure.
So I wanted to ask you, we haven't had a psychiatrist
as a guest, we've got a few members who are psychiatrists,
but we have had psychologists,
and we've had Matthias Desmet, you know,
so he was on mass formation, very interesting,
he knows about totalitarianism,
he's written a book about it,
and then mystifyingly to me,
people were attacking Matthias Desmet,
I don't know whether it was because he was aligned
with Malone, Robert Malone,
but anyway, I couldn't understand that,
I couldn't understand why the Breggins
were so fixed on Matthias Desmet,
and somehow got the feeling,
I don't know whether my perception was right,
that the Breggins were upset that Matthias Desmet
was saying that the people were responsible
for their own mass formation.
I never thought that he was saying that,
I thought it was a misunderstanding.
Anyway, so I wanted to ask you about,
so in my opinion, this whole thing was characterized
by psychological torture of populations around the world,
it was planned, it was evil,
I think the intent was to take people away from their,
what makes them human, from their humanity,
we're highly social animals as you know,
and it's absolutely extraordinary to me
that they sought to isolate human beings
who are highly social animals.
So the point about highly social animals
is if they don't have human contact, human beings, they die,
especially so in early childhood,
but I'm sure it's true of adults as well.
And so I wanted, do you know about the mice?
I know it's mice, I think it was mice,
anyway, the universe 25 experiment.
I wonder what they did to the mice.
If you remember that experiment,
they grew in population, they had everything they wanted,
they had nice quarters initially until it got overpopulated
and then they had as much food as they wanted, I think.
So it wasn't that, but they got, there was overpopulation,
it wasn't overpopulation per se,
but there literally wasn't room,
you know, it was quite big initially, but 200s over,
I think they went up to 10,000 or something.
But it seems that it got to the stage where
the mice were so unhappy in an undefined way
that they stopped, they couldn't breed,
they couldn't reproduce.
And so I think it went down to 150 or something,
and so the guy who was doing the experiment
or the people, he was the leader, I think,
he said that all the mice would die
despite the fact they were down to 150,
there's plenty of room, but they,
so I worked out that it sounded like
they'd lost the will to live.
And so is that what they did with human beings too?
And reduced them to a state of Stockholm's
or different states of Stockholm syndrome,
which you as a scientist will know
is extremely difficult to treat.
I think it's certainly part of one.
We can talk about Stockholm syndrome.
I think it's part of what they did.
Let me go back, there were some experiments done
on raising infants by a psychoanalytic researcher,
whose name escapes me at the moment,
but one set of, and they were orphans,
one set of orphans were given food,
all they needed for sustenance,
but they were not talked to and they weren't touched.
And the other set were given the food and nutrients,
but they were touched and they were talked to.
And the orphans who were not touched or talked to
failed to thrive.
Okay, so it was very clear we need this.
During the lockdowns, remember, they separated,
they did not allow people to attend funerals here.
Okay, they did not allow you to visit your relatives
in a nursing home.
This is torture of the highest quality, inhuman torture.
Okay, and they've also been gaslighting us too.
This is the other thing, you know that movie Gaslight
with Ingrid Bergman and I think Charles Poirier,
you know, he turns the, she knows the gas,
the gas lights go up, you know, everything's fine.
He convinces her that she's crazy when in fact,
she's actually noting what's really reality.
So those of us who have observed these things,
we're the ones that they're trying to gaslight all the time.
So the operation, the operation was massive.
It was incredibly, deviously brilliantly constructed.
And I think a lot of this has to do,
the use of the mask is a brilliant propagandistic tool
in their part, because even the,
even very highly educated, intelligent,
professional people think, well, the mask,
well, it's gotta do something.
It protects something, right?
And they convinced many, many people that these were essential.
I still see people walking around with masks now.
They're utterly useless and actually are quite damaging as well.
But these are brilliant psychological tools that they know
and have used to great advantage on their part.
Now, with respect to Desmet and I read Desmet's book.
I have a little quarrel with Desmet's ideas.
I don't believe mass formation explains all that much.
But I also took issue with this issue.
He wrote, he had a section in his book
about the Sierpinski triangle
and how this explained this kind of organic,
I mean, there's a feeling in Desmet
that it wasn't an elite that who deliberately
perpetrated an agenda.
And I think that's where the quarrel
with the Breggins came from.
So I've read an article about this in my Substack,
if you're interested, it's somewhere listed long articles,
but I talked about it in that regard.
I think when it comes down to this issue,
we're now, there is a dividing line.
If you think that all these lockdowns
and this whole operation occurred
out of some kind of spontaneous organic kind of wildfire,
then you're missing the truth of the matter,
which is that there is a systematic
and a coordinated effort to go after us, the people,
we little people.
I don't see any other way out of that explanation.
So Emmanuel, what do you think about,
so I'm not seeking to divide us further,
but I just am astonished that so many people
are stuck on the vaccinations
and don't consider anything else, not even,
and if I say, oh, I think that populations
were psychologically tortured
or that they raped the souls of human beings
and they intended to do so, I'm told,
oh, no, you can't say that, that's going too far, apparently.
But it seems to me that not exactly what-
You're absolutely right, I'm glad you brought that up.
I too, I'm tired, everybody's so focused on the jab
as if the jab is the only thing.
Well, the jab is one of their tools.
It's one of the parts of their operation.
I think the major one was that-
These other things are what you're talking about.
Fear, remember when this happened?
You couldn't go by your screen
and not see a death count of some sort.
Every day, a death count and fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.
They were bludgeoning people, they were traumatizing people,
and it was phony, we know it was phony.
John Ioannidis proved to us scientifically it was phony,
okay, and yet they hammered away these death counts
every single day for such a long time
that I can't even remember.
And right, we have the more-
The issue that you raise about the jab, the jab, the jab,
these people we're against are the merchants of fear.
They're the masters of fear.
If we try to combat fear, their fear,
without trying to induce fear by saying,
oh, if you get the jab, you're gonna die.
See, that person died, another example.
We're not gonna win that battle.
We are not gonna out fear these people.
So we have gotta be more fundamental.
They violated human rights, they tortured people,
they imprisoned the healthy, they imprisoned people.
These are the realities.
And they're doing all kinds of things economically.
Look at the transfer of wealth that occurred.
Sure. Right?
Massive transfer of wealth.
And you know, but I'm sure your people know,
but all the globalist stuff with the currencies
and the WHO and whatnot.
So the fundamental issues are an attack on human rights
and human beings, physical beings.
Emmanuel, they played on fear.
They used fear propaganda.
The question is, were people psychologically tortured
beyond the point of no return?
And is that what we're seeing now?
Because even I have great difficulty in remembering
how life was before 2019.
I just sense that it's very different,
but it could be my perception.
But I did spend a lot, sorry.
I share that perception.
I feel there's a miasma that's still above us.
And the world has changed.
I mean, I feel like there's been a change.
And I think that they really did do a number on us.
Sure.
Okay, they did a number on us.
They really did torture people that way.
They changed their view of the world.
But for me, for me personally, what I saw was
they have such power that they will force,
try to force a substance into my inviolable body,
that they will imprison me into a small area.
And nobody's fighting about this.
Nobody's rising up in rebellion.
They have that control.
They will go into bank accounts and freeze bank accounts
or even take money.
So this is the reach.
And they were surveil everything.
This is the reach.
That's what's terrifying to me.
And that's what I think that is what causes me
to continue to feel a great deal of trepidation as a result.
So yes, yeah.
So for a long time, just very quickly,
for a long time I thought I was immune and people like me,
I thought we were all immune from the psychological torture
which I was witnessing.
And then I realized that actually I wasn't feeling very well
in the beginning of 2022.
I didn't feel quite myself.
And then I realized actually the reason was nothing other
than that I had been psychologically tortured too.
And eventually was affected by it.
But anyway, but I think that we all are afraid
of saying that we were fearful.
I haven't heard many people saying,
I've heard people saying we need to run for,
we need to stampede for the exits
and other stuff.
And it pointed out to me that these people
were very afraid.
I hadn't realized that.
I was just frustrated that they were further
psychologically torturing people on the meetings.
But you never heard any of these people who were,
possibly they weren't in control of themselves.
They didn't realize what they were doing,
but there were one or two people saying stampede
for the exits all the time.
I thought this is not what people wanna hear on the group
to enable them to tell people what had happened
to wake them up.
But I wanted to ask you, since we've got the chance,
have people got PTSD?
Have they got Stockholm syndrome?
Or is it all about cults?
Did someone read a playbook on cults
or a deadly cult into operation?
So is the COVID stuff?
Yeah, you know.
The thing I want you to touch on, Emmanuel,
is the people who have been psychologically tortured
and who are not yet themselves,
are they ever going to recover?
Especially when they don't know what's happened
and nobody's diagnosed them.
It's up to us to point out to them
that this was way more serious than they thought.
It was bad enough, what they saw,
but it's way more serious, I think.
I think, sorry.
Yeah, I think, Steven, there were a lot of profound questions.
I'm not sure I have the expertise to answer them fully,
but what I'll say,
I think we've all been psychologically traumatized.
I think there's no question about that.
Whether we have the criteria that meet the PTSD stuff
and DSM is another thing, but we're bruised.
We're bruised, we're battered.
We've been shown the hand of power, and it is a vicious one.
And there are people in the other camp
who they know something isn't right.
They unconsciously sense something is not right,
but they can't quite consciously apprehend it.
And there are people in the other camp
who are just completely blind to it
and just think everything is fine.
Just do what they tell you.
Everything's gonna be okay.
And then you have opportunists.
Part of the operation is human beings
are composites of good and evil, let's say,
simplistically speaking.
All right?
A good operation like this,
a brilliant devilish operation like this
is gonna elicit the worst out of human beings, purposefully.
And so you got rabid, crazy people
who would shout if you didn't wear a mask.
Sure.
And within 10 feet of them.
And who wanted to, who thought that
if you didn't get the jab,
you shouldn't be in their vicinity.
I was barred from family gatherings
because even though I was very healthy,
I had not been jabbed.
And then you have people like Noam Chomsky,
the supposed leading light of the liberal left,
saying that the unvaccinated should go
and forage for their food and should be quarantined.
I've got a video of him saying something like that.
So this is, how do you explain that?
Is he co-opted?
Is he part of the program?
Is he just an idiot?
Is he a cruel, sadistic person?
I have no respect for a person like that.
I mean, imagine a healthy person
being deemed a danger to someone.
And imagine all these people who bought it,
all these people who bought it.
It's inconceivable.
Can they come back?
Honestly, I don't know.
I don't know.
What I think the best means we have to-
I just want to get, this is very important.
So when can they come back?
You mean, can they recover?
Is that what you meant?
Yeah, yeah.
Can they recover from that?
Can they get out of that mindset?
And I think that we have to live without fear.
We have to show by example,
what it's like to live without fear.
We have to not fall into the convenient notion
that we have no power against their power.
In fact, we may not have as much power,
but we do have power and we shouldn't feel disempowered.
It's a matter of asserting ourselves,
of insisting on our rights.
It's simple.
Yeah, but it's not just that, is it, Emmanuel?
Because so we, you and I, and others on this call,
we have a special responsibility
because we are kind of asking each other,
we're not sure ourselves of the extent of the damage
or the extent of the attack.
We're not sure of the psychological torture,
highly damaging psychological torture,
trying to isolate human beings, highly social animals.
And it's absolutely key for human beings
to have human contact,
yet they wanted to isolate everybody.
So Boris Johnson said on British television live,
you must stay at home.
And I personally think Boris Johnson, pardon?
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, this person.
So Stephen, that's 20 minutes now.
Goes quickly, doesn't it?
So what I'm trying, wait a minute, Charles.
So what I'm trying to say, Emmanuel,
you are a psychiatrist.
You're also a psychoanalyst.
You've listened to many, many people.
You've got a great understanding of human beings,
which is why you're able to articulate
all these amazing thoughts you have
and kind of talk, jump from one to another.
And so what I'm trying to say is,
if we don't kind of have confidence
in our instincts about this,
so I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'm a medical doctor.
And so if we don't have the confidence
to actually push this possibility,
because no one else will, and no one will get better either.
That's what I'm trying to say.
So you and I may be-
So what I would say, Stephen,
is that human beings are resilient also.
Human beings are social creatures.
I go to a beach here and people want to congregate there.
They want to go to the beach.
They want to get together and swim.
They want to be with each other.
So there's a very strong impulse within us
to do what we need to do and should do.
And that cannot be,
that has to be taken into account as well.
It's not as if people were tortured
and they're left disabled forever.
I think that there's a restorative ability,
a restorative capacity within each of us,
and it has to be nurtured and brought along.
And I feel quite optimistic.
I feel quite optimistic that people
want to surge into a togetherness.
What I feel pessimistic about is whether
the government will come down with something else
and convince people of another kind of terrible situation
and we'll be left with another apartheid society
and maybe even a more maniacal response,
like what happened to the man who comes back
in the Plato's cave and they conspire to kill him.
I don't know.
Well, so that brings us to another point,
which I'll very briefly mention,
but I won't have time to go into it,
in my opinion, there was no pandemic,
but further than that, there never have been any pandemics.
And what's more, there won't be any pandemics in the future.
The point being that the whole playbook at the moment
seems to be the best Trojan horse is a new disease,
disease X, for example, because they can,
that Trojan horse can line up with all the other Trojan horses,
climate change, the war.
Yeah.
But it's the medical one,
the fear that's engendered by fear of death,
that's the most powerful, in my opinion.
All right, we're moving on.
Thank you.
25 minutes next, David.
The fact that pandemics are not possible, Emmanuel,
means that they don't need to be afraid.
We need to get that message out.
Yes, we do not need to be afraid.
And even, Charles, give me two seconds
to answer Stephen on this, okay?
This is important.
There is something fundamental about the medical issue,
the doctor-patient relationship, the fear of death,
the power differential between the healer
and the person who is ill.
And it is at the fundament of totalitarian systems.
It happened during Hitler's reign.
It's used by all of these people.
You remember the Jews,
they were considered to be purveyors of contagion.
Yes.
That was a big part of the Holocaust, okay?
They were filthy, they were germ-ridden.
It is fundamental.
And this gets back further to the fear of death.
I think out of all of this,
maybe the most important thing is to,
for all of us, to confront our mortality, accept it.
We're all gonna die sometime.
And why are we afraid of our own shadows?
Absolutely.
I mean, I agree with you, but this was no pandemic.
There was not a pandemic here.
This is fear.
Fear-induced baloney, et cetera.
But let's get more fundamental.
We all wanna live.
We all wanna have hopes, desires, and dreams.
And I think it's only in accepting that we will die
and we can die, we don't know when we're gonna die,
that we can truly be free.
Absolutely, I agree with you.
I think in my personal journey, I've lived a life.
And if I die tomorrow, I've died having lived.
I do not wanna have a life, like a living death.
Cowering away.
Cowering in all my needs.
Well said, Manny.
Wonderful, Emmanuel.
Yeah.
And now I understand why Michel liked you, or likes you.
All right, next, we've got a string of hands up.
So, Jerry Waters.
Hi, Manny.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
You're obviously a true warrior.
And as many of my friends say, us warriors, truth seekers,
freedom fighters have to stick together.
And it's so true that these people that we've met up
since 2020, we've been friends for a long time.
And I think that these people that we've met since 2021
are really, really different people.
They are worthy of a friendship.
And I would hope that I'm worthy of their friendship.
But I really have met such a fabulous group of people.
Now, of course, you come across the odd nutcase
and people are off the wall.
I do find there's a lot of quacks.
People would be off the wall ideas and that.
Just getting on to the idea of crushing.
What was it all about?
It was about crushing the human spirit.
It was crushing the humanity in us, forcing us to,
the social distancing, the masking,
the whole thing was about crushing us.
I personally don't feel traumatized, at least.
I feel invigorated.
This is the best thing.
Well, it's not a good thing.
I hate the idea that's happened
but by Jesus brought out the fighting spirit in me.
And I will fight and I will fight.
And this is the hill on which I die.
I've reached 74.
I really not that pushed about getting old.
And if I die at this stage, yeah, it's okay.
So if somebody came up and shot me,
I would feel, well, at some stage,
they would call a street after me
or a bridge or something after me.
That is worth it at this stage.
Getting on to the virus.
No virus.
It doesn't matter whether there's a virus or not.
I personally believe there are viruses.
My 40 years in general practice have taught me,
and too often I've seen, classes of snotty nose kids.
And then people came in coming into me
with various upper as biotract infections.
I picked them up.
I bring them home to my wife and kids.
The whole idea fits some sort of an effective entity.
40 years I've done this and I cannot help but believe
that there is some sort of infectious entity.
Whether it's an exosome or whether it's a virus,
I don't care.
I don't happen to believe it's a nutritional problem
in me and my family that lasted for two and a half days
or electromagnetic waves or whatever.
So what I'm saying is I stick with a viral concept
or some sort of infectious entity.
I think this is a huge distraction as well.
I don't think we should be going down this road
at this point in time, given that this is the greatest crime
in history bar none.
This puts everything else into the hate me place.
This is the greatest totalitarian takeover.
And effort to transfer of wealth.
No, I know global warming was a similar type one.
But at the end of the day, I believe,
and I said this a couple of times on this Zoom,
I believe that COVID is the rock on which they would perish.
I believe this is the rock that put the whole ship of fools.
Because it's too widespread.
They went a bridge too far.
And that's my firm belief.
I also, again, I communicate with people all the time.
I'm fairly good at communicating.
But all the time people are coming up to me,
shaking my hand saying, Jerry, you were right.
You were dead right.
I taught you off the boards three years ago,
but you're dead right.
So that's what I'd say.
We are winning.
We are definitely winning.
And I think that's a message we should put out.
Anything else is defeatist.
If for a minute we begin to think that we're not winning,
well, then we're winning the great,
we're not losing for us.
We're losing for our children, our grandchildren,
our great grandchildren.
We have to win for them.
So that again is what I'd put out.
And as I say, the crime of COVID hoax.
And the assault and battery of the vaccine
and all the other damage that's done from the masking
and the psychological warfare on the people
was done in the context of what we knew then.
And it doesn't really matter whether it's a virus
or no virus in that.
The crime was committed in the name of that.
And we've got to stick to that.
Just as an aside, what part of New Zealand were you in?
I'm in the Wellington region in the place called Eastbourne
right around the harbour.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I toured New Zealand, fabulous place,
both islands, north and south.
When you've walked the rugby at all,
do you ever manage to get hooked on the rugby?
Yeah, not a big rugby fan now, not really.
Yeah.
I know a few rugby players.
I know actually an All Black even,
but I've seen a few matches.
But, you know, Wellington is a bureaucratic centre
in New Zealand, it's the most bureaucratised,
it's terrible in that regard.
They were the most massed,
the most submissive people in the world.
Yeah, that's a crazy thing, isn't it?
Oh my God, really?
You would never imagine the Māori,
the Māori as they call them,
would have actually gone that road.
I've got a proud boast in that, I could honestly say,
I slept with an All Black.
Nice.
I didn't actually sleep with him.
I slept in the same room as him.
A guy by the name of Mike Brewer, he was a flanker,
and he came and he was coaching with the club I was with,
and when we went away, I was always roomed with him.
So I've got a proud boast
that I actually slept with an All Black.
Okay, on we go.
Thank you, Gerry, the sleeper with the All Blacks.
All right, thanks Gerry.
Anna.
Hi, thank you so much for that amazing presentation.
That was really enjoyable to listen to.
And particularly given that my brother lives in New Zealand,
does do my four nephews and nieces,
and I was horrified at what unfolded in New Zealand,
because as a UK lawyer,
knowing that their law is based on our legal system,
I could not, I simply couldn't understand
all the breaches of human rights, as you pointed out,
that were happening,
particularly in the context that, you know,
it was the medical profession
who seemed to be perpetrating the breach of the human rights
and informed consent, et cetera.
So I don't, the first question really is,
how do you explain the fact that, you know,
the medical profession who have been taught
informed consent laws, I'm told,
who are supposed to uphold human rights,
who are intelligent people,
how did they just simply ignore all that?
This question number one.
And question number two, and I ask all this because,
I'll back up a minute, I ask all this
because I totally agree with you,
that, you know, this has been psychological torture.
And as a lawyer, you know, we've put the case forward
that that has indeed been the case.
And given this level of psychological abuse,
that would vitiate any consent that's been given
in any event, it would nullify the consent.
So that's my, you know,
where I'm coming from from all of this.
But the issue I also wanted to explore
was that of Jacinda Ahern's mental state.
And I didn't know how you feel,
whether you feel comfortable to comment on this,
but, you know, does she have a personality disorder?
Is she a psychopath?
Is she a sociopath?
Because I don't understand how these people
can behave like that as normal beings, as it were.
So over to you and thank you for listening.
Oh, right.
Well, let me first say, I don't,
as a psychoanalyst psychiatrist,
I've never indulged in diagnosing people
whom I haven't treated myself in a private way.
Fair enough.
I don't believe in diagnosing public figures.
But we can say by her actions
that her actions were very destructive.
And it seems to me as if she were following orders.
You know, she worked with Tony Blair in the past.
To me, she was a willing puppet
who worked to help destroy the fabric of her country.
Yeah.
That's how I see her.
Now with responsibility for-
Can I just interject though?
Can I just make a comment on that?
She actively enjoyed it.
She was smiling.
When people challenged her on, you know,
you're creating a two-tiered society.
Yep, yep, that's the way it's gonna be.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yep, yep.
You know, she was happy.
Yeah, you see the problem, and the problem is,
I don't watch mainstream media,
so I saw very few clips of these things.
I never watched this stuff.
But I did see the clip of that.
And you know, it doesn't matter to me
whether she enjoys it or not, she did it.
Okay?
You judge by your fruits, not by other stuff.
So what she did was destructive and terrible and awful.
Yeah.
And we just had a protest against her being appointed
to this Christ Church position
of being misinformation czar or something.
So, no, she's bad news.
But I don't expect much from the new government,
although we have a foot in the door.
Now, let me get back to your other question
about the medical establishment.
First of all, as I said, you know,
these are mafia tactics.
They, the medical council, following their agenda,
following the FSMB and the national agenda,
picked three people, myself, Peter Canaday, Matt Shelton,
to show everybody else in the profession
that if you dare challenge what we're telling you to do,
you're gonna lose your license.
And so all the other 19, 18,000,
however many doctors there, just,
no matter what they felt about informed consent,
just kept mum for the most part,
with some exceptions, of course.
And so that's how they did that.
And they're still mum.
And I feel, I really feel no respect for these people.
Honestly, that's my personal feeling is a kind of loathing
for these people who sat by silently
and went along with all this stuff.
I agree.
It makes me sick to my stomach.
And I know a GP here, let me tell you,
this is a very important example.
Someone here had a serious adverse event
after the first jab, okay, a practicing GP,
and called me in tears and talked to me.
This is back in 2021, I think.
And I gave her some support and whatnot.
Well, lo and behold, this same person
has gone full circle and is now back in the Covidian camp,
despite having experienced whatever.
In fact, I saw this person and the response I got once,
and the person was wearing a mask,
I don't wanna reveal the gender,
person was wearing a mask,
I can't believe it, wearing a mask,
and said to me, how you feeling?
I said, I'm feeling great except for this rat,
this lockdown, the traffic lights,
and the person in response said, how you feeling?
The person in response said, I'm terrified.
I said, terrified?
What are you terrified of?
I haven't been fully jabbed.
It was one of the few real exemptions
since the person, you know, I couldn't believe it.
So that's where we're kind of up against
this kind of a culture.
And yeah, I don't know what to say about that any further.
That's very helpful.
At 3%, at 3% of the doctors here just said,
hold on, we need informed consent.
You can't say one size fits all for everybody.
We would have stopped it in its tracks.
Exactly, I keep saying that.
Very good.
Well, I mean, the horrifying thing is that, you know,
these doctors think that they may have kept their head down
and got away with it all.
But you know, as the lawsuit's coming,
they're facing imprisonment or worse.
And you know, it just astonishes me that they think
for that short term gain, that that long term risk
is worth taking, besides the breach of their oath
and the fact that they're killing people.
I mean, the whole thing just appalls me.
But anyway, thank you so much for taking your stand
and you're a hero.
And I work with Matt Shelton and he's a hero too.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you, Anna, well said.
Jeremy, our favorite dentist from the Channel Islands.
Manny.
Hi, Emmanuel, yeah, very much appreciated
your comments today.
I got away with one really,
because I was all set to possibly move to New Zealand.
One of my colleagues moved over,
asking me and my family and my practice out there
and he ended up getting about three of them
and regretting it very much.
So I noticed they've revoked the mandate now,
but what do you feel is the political situation there
with regards to the politicians,
the population and the medics?
Are they waking up?
Do you think they could,
if they have another so-called pandemic,
just impose another mandate?
What is your view on the professions
and the populations attitude to this now going forwards?
Well, there's a little wrinkle with,
they revoke the mandates and yet,
if you wanna get a job with the health system,
you still have to be jabbed.
The employers can insist you're being jabbed.
So much for the mandates being revoked.
It's a very clever system they have.
In Wellington, they have a dearth of psychiatrists
and yet they terminated two
of the few competent psychiatrists they had
who had been working here long and well and well respected.
They don't care.
With respect to the political situation,
as I say, we have a foot in the door,
I think with Winston Peters.
I am not so, I don't believe that the COVID inquiry
that's being established is going to result in much
because all the major parties were in cahoots
when this all happened and they're not gonna wanna
put themselves in prison, whoever's conducting the inquiry.
But I think that it's gonna come down to people
on the ground saying, no, we're not gonna do this.
You can't do this to us.
Whether the professions will follow along
with the doctors who were kind of biding their time
with their heads below the parapet
are gonna peep up a little bit.
I'm not so sanguine about that, Jeremy,
to be honest over here.
New Zealand is a funny country.
I thought this was a really rough and tough kind of place
where people could use that number eight wire
and fix anything and take care of all kinds of problems.
It's, yeah, I'm not so sure.
I was actually staggered.
I didn't think the Australians, all the New Zealanders,
will put up, sorry, Charles,
would put up with any of this crap.
I thought as a race and a nation
and the individuals would be far stronger.
I couldn't believe they just bowed down and lined up
and no one said anything.
That's not a criticism.
I just, maybe they were just play totally.
But I'm very shocked.
It's interesting to say that's still there and in place.
Thank you for that.
It's very sad and biased as well.
All right, so thank you, Jeremy.
I was on the phone to my accountant yesterday
who, Manny question and Stephen questioned my stance
on all of this over the last four years.
He's been my accountant for 20 plus years.
And he is a very fit guy, 50 years of age,
so much younger than me.
And had heart, suddenly got heart problems.
So Jeremy, to your point and Manny,
what we're talking about,
yesterday he tells me he discussed his,
sorry, he's now awoken and he's become,
and I'm also on the committee
of the Australian Vaccination Risks Network
have been for the last two years.
And he spoke to his cardiologist yesterday
and his cardiologist absolutely agreed
that his heart problems caused by the jab.
So my accountant said to him,
so why don't you say anything?
And he said, as we well know,
why in essence I'll get attacked if I speak up.
So, and we've had the comment at this meeting
and we say it again and again,
that if 20% of medicos had spoken out
against this scam, it would never have happened,
but it's still alive and living.
And Manny, the attack on you and Stephen,
the attacks on you,
it's alive and well and living in these medical boards.
And it was good to be reminded,
Manny, thank you of the Federation of State Medical Boards
and then the International Federation.
And you shining a light on that
will help us to marshal our resources
against the activities of those
so that cardiologists are more willing to speak up
rather than Stephen, you've often said,
we've heard, well, why didn't you speak up,
quote, I have a mortgage to pay?
Oh, I've got to put food on the table.
Yeah, well, we all-
We've got Charles Hoff on, it's like a call soon.
It seems to me, Charles,
that the point that all these people miss
is that they're being attacked.
Don't they defend themselves and their families
when they're attacked normally,
or do they just sit there and take it
and say, I've got to put food on,
it's pathetic, I think, it really is.
How can you be a doctor?
How can you be a doctor when you've betrayed
the fundamental principles of being a doctor?
That's the other thing. Absolutely.
I agree with you.
Okay, thank you, Jeremy.
I was absolutely mystified, Emmanuel,
that so few doctors saw the events of,
or still see the events of the last four years
as I see them.
I can't believe it.
It's unbelievable to me.
Yeah, it's the same as many in New Zealand
of the 20,000 doctors.
There weren't thousands of them on the streets.
All right, Theresa, we're gonna keep moving.
We only got 45 minutes left.
Hi, thank you, Charles.
Hi, Manny, thank you for joining us.
You did a brilliant talk.
I'm so appreciative.
I was going to talk about a pattern interrupt,
changing the script of what we are trying to say to people
because I think people,
they don't wanna know that they've taken poison
and nobody really wants to see the vaccine injured
because that will remind them that they've taken poison.
However, a point raised earlier about the person
who said that we need to create a stampede for the exits.
Well, that's me.
I've been saying that in this group for over two years
and I would like to actually just state my rationale for that
and then ask you your thoughts.
Please.
Right, okay.
I live in the UK and ever since the very beginning
January, 2020, I could see that they were building
what appeared to be a slaughterhouse shoot around us.
Now, I think they're gonna make an example of the UK.
We're an island.
Presently, they are sewing through our food supply.
You know probably about the action against the farmers.
We presently have hundreds of thousands
of fighting age men in our hotels.
They're migrants.
We don't really know why they're here,
but I'll tell you one thing about them.
They're not trying to date the local girls,
which kind of tells you they're on a payroll.
Our government, you know, for 200 years,
they don't build a new prison
and then suddenly they're building
six new mega prisons all at once.
Oh my God.
And I'm pretty sure that a Chinese social credit system
is coming in because our Prime Minister Rishi Sunak,
who nobody voted for, his father-in-law
is the owner of Infosys, which is the company
that put in the software
for the Chinese social credit system in China.
So I've been watching this for three years
and I really do think that we are sleepwalking
into something much, much worse
than what we've seen so far.
I believe that Disease X or whatever they decide to pull next
is going to be, no more Mr. Nice Guy.
So I've been thinking about it.
Are we heading towards a critical mass of anger
or a saturation point of defeat with the public
where you would see people sad, scared,
but going to get jabbed anyway
because their government is telling them to do it.
So I honestly think that we need to change the record.
We need to stop talking about the vaccine injured.
We need to start pointing out the big macroscopic reasons
why they're doing this and create a stampede
of a different kind, one of anger against the government
because they appear to be taking steps
that are not in our interests.
But stay away from the vaccines
because that is triggering people.
We've all seen it.
They shuffle their feet, they lower their gaze.
They appear to want to be somewhere else
and they really don't want to hear it, even now.
Well, let me respond with a few comments.
One, I agree very much psychologically speaking
by harping on the deleterious effects of the jab
we're only increasing resistance against us.
And it's become something of a monomania here.
Another person died from the jab.
Did someone die from the jab?
If so, let's make sure this will be the game changer.
It's not going to be the game changer.
Okay?
We do have to get back to the core issues,
the global issues, the general assault that's occurring.
And we've got to just, I have arguments
with my own crowd here about the focus on the jab.
I'm sick of the jab, okay?
And psychologically speaking,
by continuing to harp on the jab,
we're kind of hurting ourselves at this point.
We have to just lead by example,
focus now on these more general and very important issues
like illegal migrants, for example,
like these invasions of countries to make them subservient,
that going on in the States, going on in the UK
and other places like that.
I am hopeful that the States will lead the way
and there'll be a turning point
and that we're in for a renaissance,
but that's not gonna come until 2025 and beyond.
I'm very hopeful of that.
And if not, then I'm gonna stand on my fence
and I'm gonna protect myself.
And either way, I'm gonna be, I win.
Either way, I win.
Thank you. Thank you.
And it's gonna come down.
People are gonna have to get out there
and fight for their liberties everywhere, okay?
We've been complacent.
We've been lying around, oh yeah, this is great.
We can be, we can do all these different things
and all that.
And then when their liberties are squished,
they don't say a peep.
We've got to fight to keep our liberties
and they're not conferred by government.
They are within us.
They are unalienable.
So would you say that my rationale for creating a stampede,
it doesn't have to be a stampede of fear.
It can be anger, but it would be better
to have a stampede for the exits now
than when the shoot that they're building is complete.
Well, I would just say,
well, I wouldn't go have a stampede for the exits.
I would have a stampede at the ramparts
of anger against these people trying to imprison us.
That's what this stampede has to go.
We may need another protest here in New Zealand
at the parliament.
We may need to bring people together again.
That's the kind of stampede I wanna have.
Where are you gonna go?
Where am I gonna go?
There is no place to go, okay?
Except we hold our ground and we go against.
And the other point too,
is that a lot of touchy-feely people, loving people,
think have an angry thought is a bad thing
or an angry feeling.
I don't agree with that.
No, I don't agree. We have gotta be angry.
We should be angry.
Anger is actually productive.
So let's get angry and let's fight for ourselves.
Yeah. Yeah.
Cause this might not end until we actually drag them out
by the scruffs of their necks and remove them from power.
That's right.
The lack of reaction from populations around the world
is encouraging these bastards.
The fact that men have forgotten how to be men
and don't do anything, it's crazy.
To protect their family.
There's lots of people doing stuff.
There's huge amounts going on.
We just don't know.
And all you have to do is look at telegram groups.
There's one telegram group, Stephen,
in Australia by a guy called Dave O'Neill.
He has 59,000 subscribers.
And you haven't heard of him.
59,000, unheard of.
It's wonderful.
And we're just going-
Yeah, but I mean, generally,
generally men are trying to be like women
or at least how women want men to be,
or say they want men to be,
because they don't really want men to be
like they say they want them to be.
So that's what I mean, Charles.
Well, there's lots, there is lots happening
and I'm an optimist.
I'm absolutely, we will win this.
And I remind you all of what Gandhi did in the 40s
through non-violent, non-compliance.
It's all we have to do.
Do not comply.
So-
Well, we don't have to mention violence.
We just need to say that it's okay to be angry,
just as Emmanuel-
Yeah, be angry and don't comply.
People are too reasonable these days.
Too reasonable.
No, they're not.
Not at all.
They're not.
Well, exactly.
They think they're reasonable.
That's right.
If Theresa says something or Manny says something
or Stephen, you say something,
wipe by your friends.
There's nothing reasonable about that.
Nothing.
All right, thanks Theresa.
Albert, our Eagle Man.
Manny is great to meet you.
Talk about listening well.
Early on, I heard your Philly accent.
It's when you say the word talk, I hear a W in there.
That's Philly.
That's Philly right there.
But anyways, yeah, so I'm the creator
of the verresaware.com, a little website.
I follow the Verres data.
And since this COVID pandemic,
I've met a lot of friends from the New Zealand area
that were using my dashboard well before,
you know, in the beginning.
And since then, I've had a chance to meet
even Barry the whistleblower on a Twitter space
and haven't met Liz Gunn,
but she's retweeted some of my stuff on Twitter.
But it strikes me that, you know,
being you being a psychiatrist and a smart person
and a linguist, the power of words,
I think words are like the most powerful tool we have
and possibly spirituality,
kind of like Jerry Waters was saying,
like he's, you know, he's not afraid
or there's a certain type of warrior that's not afraid.
And I kind of like to think that I'm in that space as well.
I'm not afraid, I haven't been hypnotized
because I think this is like a spiritual war going on,
a spiritual battle.
And, you know, because of my Christian upbringing,
I just really believe that, you know, I believe in heaven,
I believe in God, I believe in Jesus,
I believe that there's something else past, past the world.
And so it's like, I think of it as like,
this is just the world is just like
the first round of the playoffs.
There's something more.
I don't have a death wish, I have a what's next wish.
There's something more.
And I think all of that, it's just kind of kept me calm,
kept me at peace.
And, you know, I just have to,
I just want to reiterate or just say it again,
you know, it said in the Bible,
I think somewhere in there, Jesus said that
we will be able to do greater things than him.
And it's like, what, I mean,
what a good type of father that is.
I mean, all fathers want their kids to be better than them.
You know, so I believe just because he said that,
or it's there in the Bible,
that someday it will be like that here.
Like, I'm sure, it's my belief, I think here on earth,
we've already solved cold fusion and cold fission
and cancer and all that.
They just are keeping it a secret from us.
And-
Oh, Albert, may I make a response to that?
Because I think you brought up something very critical,
which is that I'm fond of saying that
the real world is an idealist nightmare.
And this really goes back to Plato's cave in a way.
But I believe that we have all the technological
and computational power that we need
to make this world a paradise right now.
We don't need any more scientific discoveries.
We don't need any kind of flying, whatever the hell it is,
you know, flying saucers or not.
We have everything that we need to make this world
and we have everything we need.
So what is keeping us from doing that?
What's keeping us from doing that
is something within human nature, human psychology,
and groups.
So that is the most critical problem of the day
when you really think about it.
Okay?
We have the power to make this a paradise.
Why are we not doing it?
Why haven't we done so?
And that's because there's something within us,
within the nature of our institutions
that is allowing some species of evil to prevail
to prevent that.
Right on, Manny.
Well, such a pleasure.
I know that, you know, I'm here in San Jose in California
and we helped build the beast here
and we're gonna help tear down the beast here.
So just keep an eye on me.
They think I'm a little hummingbird,
but really what I am is a great eagle here in Silicon Valley.
God bless you, Manny.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Albert.
And well done on your work and Jerry,
well done on supporting Albert in that work.
Okay, Alan, where have you gone?
I'm here, thank you.
Manny, wow.
And thank you for everything, everyone.
I'm just gonna give you some context and it is a question.
So I think in many ways we make our own realities.
I believe we do that literally.
I mean, to conscious, unconscious energies,
stuff that if I told you what I really thought about,
what is life and death and everything,
you would think I'm truly crazy, but it works for me.
I think it's very easy to generalize and talk about we,
like all human nature, all of humanity are doing this.
No, I don't believe that it's reasonable to generalize.
Where I am and what I see is just optimism
and we're winning, we're winning everywhere.
Where I am, I'm in Northwest Leicestershire,
I was with Andrew Bridgen on Saturday morning.
I see what is going on.
I see what is going on there.
I see the people supporting.
I'm 66, I'm not afraid of anything.
The context for me, and I think this answers
some of the queries about how people approach this,
is I'm not scared of anything because I came into this
after several years of unrelenting suicidal disintegration.
I came into COVID wanting to die.
That was my context, if you like.
And so it was relatively easy.
I'm not denying that I've been subject to these traumas,
but I'd already had layers and layers
and layers of traumas beforehand.
So it was relatively easy for me,
and I'll come through it now.
And I'm now saying, right, bring it on,
because as far as I'm concerned,
I'm really, really fit and strong, 66.
I'll line up with the farmers and the military veterans
and anybody else, and I've got an ax.
So I don't care.
I really don't believe it's gonna come to that.
I think there is a reason for this.
Humanity is learning some very big lessons,
and I think this is meant to happen in a way.
I'm into the calmer stuff, and by that K-A-R-M-A,
a sort of inevitability to this is meant to happen.
So that is a kind of question.
Please, would you respond to that
and let me know what you think?
Thank you very much.
Thank you, everybody.
This is absolutely wonderful, as ever.
Thank you.
Well, Alan, I think you've answered your own question.
I think you've made an eloquent statement
about what things we're here to be witness
to this great exposure,
and it is a test for us in how we respond.
And the people that I have been in association with
are vibrant, animated, alive.
Yeah, we're bruised and battered,
but these are people who are full of life
and not full of fear,
and I think that's the ticket to all of this.
And I appreciate your sharing.
It's a shame that the COVID was so lethal,
didn't get you, apparently.
I could say, I mean, you know,
that whole myth of the lethality of COVID, honestly.
You know, what's hard for me is the litany of stupidities
that people swallowed all the way along.
I mean, really, it just was endless.
I saw people wiping down things
that they would never have wiped down in a million years
because it was gonna, you know, whatever.
Are you kidding me?
Will you relax a little bit, please?
Yeah, I agree.
But again, I think everybody's making their own realities.
I agree.
Everybody's on their own path,
and we keep coming around again until we learn,
and you know, that's kinda how it is.
And I'm proud to say, listen, I got a kid.
I got a son who has a partner and they have a baby,
and they're both, the baby is completely unjabbed.
And that's because, not because my son listened to me,
but because he started to read and think and listen
and came to his own conclusions with his partner.
And I think that's the best,
and that's a good sign that people have to be independent
and have to come to their own decisions
and not be forced into anything.
Yeah, agreed.
Thank you so much, and everybody else.
Thank you.
Thank you, Alan.
Thank you for your honesty now.
Before we go back to you, Stephen,
one of the things that we all can do,
and people say, let's do stuff.
Well, everyone's doing stuff.
The vision of the law and how it can be used,
there are many, as Warner Mendenhall told us,
there are over 20,000 legal actions happening in America.
We don't know all of them.
I don't know all the legal actions happening in Australia.
Manny, you don't know all the actions happening
in New Zealand.
Now, the value of real estate has risen dramatically
in Australia and many other places over the last four years.
And people say they can't afford to support,
to donate to legal causes.
They can't afford to do this.
And part of our job is to get people
to loosen their purse strings.
The value of their homes has gone up ridiculously.
If there's a Carrington event, as Theresa would tell us,
it's not gonna matter anyway.
Give your money to causes that you support.
Talk to people with money
and get them to loosen their purse strings.
The second issue in terms of the psychopaths, Manny,
the Jacinda Ardern's of this world,
and if you listen to David Icke
and what he says about Ardern and her ilk
is quite instructive.
David Icke has addressed this group some time ago.
We need to put these people on notice.
And secondly, while they're in office,
and secondly, and I'm doing this now
with our premiers in Australia,
every premier in this country has resigned
since they've imposed the COVID rules,
every single one of them.
And what we have to do in this group
and everybody watching this recording
is to literally tell these people
after they've left office,
we know what you did and we will hold you to account.
And the reason why we have to do that,
and we have to mean it seriously,
I'm doing that with Daniel Andrews,
the worst premier in Victoria's history,
is if we track these bastards
now that they're out of office
and then take action against them
for their crimes committed in office,
two things happen.
The people in office now will realise
they can't get away scot-free by getting out of office.
Secondly, if we can prove with sufficient funds
that they committed crimes in office,
they will lose their lifetime retirement benefits.
And in my view, that's one of the important things
that we need to do is to stop giving these bastards
lifetime retirement benefits.
And I want all of us to think about your local politician
who didn't respond to you when they leave,
your local state premier
or whatever you have in your country,
we have to put them on notice
that you cannot get away from your crimes
by resigning from office.
And that's a point of view I wanna put to all of us
and to stop saying there's nothing that we can do.
One of us doing something like that
can cause an enormous tsunami,
just like yesterday's Sky News had the 17 year old kid
who flew in, I think in Indiana, manny,
flew a flag, an American flag on the back of his pickup truck.
He drove to school.
The school said, you're not allowed to have a flag.
He said, get stuffed.
One person tweeted it with 3 million followers and bang,
all of the next day,
a whole bunch of other kids started flying their flag.
That's what one person can do.
So I want us to share that and manny to reinforce
why I'm an optimist like you are and like Stephen is.
So Stephen, over to you.
Stephen, you're muted.
Well, actually, Charles, you missed a compliment.
So I said, good speech from you.
So...
I'm Mr. Dragon.
Yeah.
So I said, and you said an optimist,
that I'm an optimist and I said I was an angry optimist,
but I was muted, so sorry about that.
Sorry about that.
Anyway, Emmanuel, I wanted to ask you,
you're a psychiatrist, so this is great.
And a psychoanalyst.
So, oh, by the way, would you recommend a career
as a psychoanalyst or as a counselor?
Because it seems to me that the one thing
that causes immense suffering is some mental illness
or, you know, even if you...
So anxiety, depression,
I don't really think that's an illness.
I think it's, you know, a normal reaction to a crazy world,
or at least it could as part of it.
But anyway, I wanted to ask you about addictions, you know?
And specifically, addiction to mobile phones
and computers and tech generally.
And also social media.
So you've got the twin addictions, as I see.
You've got social media and mobile phones,
and they're both addictions.
If there were any other addictions,
and people were affected to the point
that they are affected these days,
even in North Wales, where I am at the moment,
walking around with their mobile phones, you know,
and bumping into people
because they're looking at their screens.
This is crazy behavior.
If people are addicted to anything else
other than mobile phones, which are so necessary,
and social media, which kind of makes them
extremely conformist,
oh yeah, you've got to do everything on Facebook,
you know, your morning chores,
go through all your friends.
You see, nothing, you know, what's happened, Stephen,
is that nothing now ever occurs
unless you post it on someplace
to show people that it's occurred.
Exactly.
So I just can't, I can't go to the beach and have a swim.
It doesn't count.
I've got to make sure that I get a picture of myself
coming out of the waves, and I send it to everybody.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
There's no easy answer to this
because they're not gonna go away anytime soon.
But it is having an addictive effect on people.
It's changing their chemistry in some way
because they're always looking at something,
you're always checking something,
you always want to get from something,
you want to make the news.
You can't enjoy the moment.
You can enjoy the moment,
but we have to live with it.
I just think it's important for us individually
to get away from it, go and do our things,
be with people, be with people,
or be by yourself in nature and take your walks
and leave the phone home.
Don't take it with you.
But then you can find so-called friends
who are saying to you,
why didn't you answer my text?
Well, because I left my phone.
I've left my phone.
Steven, let me tell you something.
Listen, when I first became an intern or medical, whatever,
I think it was, pick me an intern, we got beepers, okay?
And we thought that was the coolest thing,
to get a beeper, because you were important.
Somebody would call you and you'd have to answer
as a doctor, young doctor, boom.
There was a sign of importance.
Well, a week later, after you got beeped 5,000 times,
it lost its glamour.
And then not long after that, the drug dealers had beepers
and everybody's got a beeper in their phone, as it were.
And so everybody's on call all the time.
For what?
We're on call all the time, really.
So they're hyper alert.
They're hyper alert or hyper vigilant, as they called.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a picture in person.
I had a young kid say to me, this young teenager say,
that the good thing about the texting is that,
if you're texting with a boy,
then you don't know when he's gonna answer,
what is he gonna say.
So you're on this kind of anticipatory tension
during this virtual courtship,
where you're always looking forward to the next message.
It's a peculiar thing.
People call me.
But I'm not on Facebook.
I am not on Facebook.
I'm on Substack, if you call that a social media.
I'm not on Facebook.
I'm on a signal group, but that drives me crazy
because there are too many messages and too many things.
And so I know my limits.
I have to keep myself contained
and keep myself insulated from these things.
Yeah, exactly.
So I noticed in your bio, Emmanuel,
that you are an expert, I think it said,
on the psychology of music, classical music.
Is that right?
Mahler and Wagner.
Well, I've written a number of papers.
Who's an expert?
One of the things I did in my career was,
I was the psychiatric consultant
for a very famous conservatory of music in Philadelphia.
And I was sort of the,
I developed health education seminars,
injury prevention seminars.
I saw students individually for psychotherapy.
I had meetings with teachers
and the administrative staff and all that.
And it was a wonderful, wonderful experience.
And it was a great institution.
A lot of their graduates are very famous musicians
around the world.
And I have always had a great interest in music.
And part of my research as an analyst
was into the psychology of creativity.
So I wrote a number of papers on Mahler
and Rachmaninoff and Scriabin and whatnot.
So what can you tell us about Mahler then?
Oh, it's too long for a group like this.
Mahler was a fascinating individual.
He consulted with Freud and Leiden
at a very critical time of his life
when his wife, he discovered his wife was having an affair.
And after that consultation,
he kind of went from living in this miserable,
creative tension all the time to sort of accepting
some of the joys and pleasures of life and his wife.
And then, but dying shortly thereafter
as if his creative demon had been extinguished
by the acceptance of pleasure.
Yeah. Kind of complicated, but.
I understand.
Emmanuel, could I ask you,
so I know everyone on this group
is interested in classical music, but I am anyway.
So I don't know whether you know the book,
Conquest of Happiness,
The Conquest of Happiness by Bertrand Russell.
Oh, I've heard of it.
I haven't read it though.
Yeah, I've heard of it, yeah.
You should, well, I think you should read it,
but maybe you know it all already.
So what Bertrand Russell do is very, very logical,
but maybe it's the illogicality of human beings,
you know, the instincts which make human beings
good and powerful, you know,
like people we want to be friends with.
But anyway, Conquest of Happiness,
Bertrand Russell goes through the causes of happiness
and the causes of unhappiness, sorry, first,
then the causes of happiness,
and then he has a chapter called The Happy Man.
So, and it's very interesting to read.
Nobody knows about this book.
He wrote about a hundred books, Bertrand Russell,
so he's a victim in his own prolific writings.
And so this book I've known for about,
I can't remember how I came across it,
but I've known it since I was like 20.
And I've read it many times.
Sometimes I read a chapter here and there
to remind me, to get me back on track.
But anyway, everyone wants to be happy.
And Bertrand Russell makes the interesting observation.
He said, animals seem to be happy.
Why aren't humans happy?
So, but that's just one thing.
So I just wondered whether you as a psychoanalyst
and a psychiatrist have insights
on how we can all become happy on this group
and the people watching the videos afterwards.
Well, I have two remarks to make.
One, I don't know if I want to conquer happiness.
I want to be happy, I guess.
I don't see happiness something to be conquered.
But is happiness necessary?
I think it's necessary to live,
necessary to do what you feel is right and good.
And if happiness comes from that,
then you're thrice blessed.
And if not, you continue to do what you need to do.
So I think from doing the right thing,
this last four years, I've really thought about this.
From doing the right thing,
there's a good chance that you'll create the conditions
which will cause you to be happy.
But that's not the reason why you do the good things,
in my opinion.
It should be all truistic.
And then with doing the right thing,
then you, or vaguely the right thing,
in the sense of promoting human beings,
what makes them special,
and criticizing any anti-human agendas.
There are lots of them at the moment.
And so you don't...
So one of the things he says
is a great cause of unhappiness is envy.
I agree.
It really is.
It really eats me up.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's a waste of time, isn't it?
Envy, I mean, my gosh.
Just there's so much...
Listen, a lot of people are living in misery
and in terrible conditions.
And we have to understand that.
And they're fighting for a daily life.
They're fighting to eat, fighting to make a living.
And these are terrible things.
People are living in war right now,
as we know in various places in the world.
These are terrible things.
We who are fortunate enough not to be in those situations
just need to appreciate the pleasures,
the treasures around us of the natural world
and of our fellow human beings.
And good works, good works, doing something good
always makes me feel good if I do something good.
And relax and stop planning.
Everybody's planning for the next month
and the next week and the next day.
They can't enjoy the moment.
No, there really is something to this idea of this Zen idea
of really immersing oneself in the moment.
This gets back to my psychoanalytic work.
All I could do in that moment, quote unquote,
of that patient hour was to absorb and listen
and to be in a different zone
so I could really comprehend what was being communicated.
And that has been, I mean,
it's a wonderful experience to do that.
So I'll give you some advice.
I'm not in the advice business, by the way,
but I'm gonna give you some advice.
So I contrast myself.
My advice is when you're with another person,
devote yourself completely and utterly
to absorbing that person.
How many times, I'm with people,
I can't even get a word out edgewise
and they start questioning me, asking me, interrupting me.
It's like, geez, let me finish my sentence.
People don't even let each other finish their sentences.
Sit with a person and just sit and just listen.
That's the joy of life, actually.
Yeah, so one of the things I've noticed
is that the people that you really like to be,
the people that I really like to be with
are somehow very invested in you when they're talking to you.
So you feel as if you're the only person in the world
when they are talking to you.
Those people are, I think it's a gift.
And yeah, I think you're right
that if you treasure every moment,
but people are so dissatisfied with themselves
and with their lives, they think everybody's got,
and particularly with social media,
they think everybody's got a better life than they have.
It's not true.
If you think you can be a human being
and go through the whole of your life
without any problems at all, it doesn't happen.
And people should stop feeling sorry for themselves
and just fight to get through
to the other side of all the problems.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Stephen, I had a conversation with my son last night
and he talked about, we talked about this issue
of victimhood.
And when I grew up,
I had no idea that I was disadvantaged in any way.
And it was only later when people said,
oh, but your father didn't do this or wasn't this,
or your parent was like, I just did my thing.
I had no idea that I had all these handicaps in my life.
I mean, really, they weren't handicaps.
We make our own handicaps.
If we think of ourselves in this way,
and we're always measuring
and comparing ourselves with everything.
Yeah, so it's really self-destructive.
It's just nonsense, I think.
So that's very important.
I think a lot of that goes on.
So they're kind of looking at the social media,
people are always thinking,
well, first of all,
all the selfies are the perfect conditions,
and everybody's at their best,
and it doesn't get onto the social media
unless it's approved by the person who's taken it.
So obviously you're looking at this unreal world,
and it's very easy, especially for young people,
to kind of fall into this dissatisfaction with themselves,
which itself, in itself is anti-human
because they don't make the best of themselves
because they give up before they've even started life.
They're not happy with themselves.
They start criticizing themselves.
And then the whole propaganda is,
oh, you're not a good father,
you're not a good mother or whatever, you know.
And so everybody, and people take that to heart,
and they get disheartened.
People need hope, and they need encouragement,
and that needs to be emphasized.
So I think we need to do,
you need to create a curriculum for school children
on how to think in a healthy way.
Steven, they don't need hope, they need hemp.
No, I said hope.
I know.
Charles.
Oh yeah, I know you're joking, yeah.
I was gaslighting you, Charles, for joking.
Too smart for me.
No, no, no.
It's just luck, if I get it right.
So anyway, what was I gonna say?
Oh yeah.
A course, a course for many to do a course.
Emmanuel, I'm asking you all these broad questions.
I couldn't answer them myself, but I wanna ask you,
can you tell us what you know about cults?
And was, you know Lord of the Flies, William Golding,
was that a cult?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's kind of a cult, yeah, of course.
I think cults are really groups.
Groups, it's part of group psychology.
A lot of people have written about group psychology,
including Freud and many others.
And cults are just more of a more intense specialized version
of a particular group.
But we had a Covidian cult here in New Zealand.
It was a big one.
Really, okay?
And we have different religious cults.
I know I've treated one or two people who've been in cults
and have gotten out of them.
And you know, they are for various reasons
in positions of relative weakness,
and the cult provides strength and identity
and purpose and meaning.
And that becomes the impetus to be part of that
and to then take action as a member of a cult.
In whatever way the cult decides.
I mean, one of the things in New Zealand,
one of the things in New Zealand was,
this is an important thing, was we were all in it together.
This is the message we got.
We're all in it together by staying apart, by the way.
We're all in it together by being locked away
and locked down and staying apart.
It was a ridiculous, absurd, ironic message,
but it was bought, it was bought by these people
in this kind of cult.
So they had meaning.
We are helping each other.
We're helping each other by imposing these restrictions
on our liberties and not seeing each other
and all that other stuff.
Sure.
So I think that the attraction of cults,
so I think that human beings have a predilection for cults.
And the reason they have it is because actually,
if they're a member of the cult, guess what?
They don't have to take responsibility.
And that's perfect for most human beings
because they don't like taking responsibility
because they find it a bit scary
or they are lazy or whatever.
They don't want to take responsibility.
And I'm talking about like 95% of people.
Even when their own family needs help,
they don't take the responsibility that they should.
They don't really think about
what their next action should be.
And then they have to-
You know what?
Again, let me go back to Plato in the ancient Greeks.
Now, the ancient Greeks weren't perfect.
They were warmongering, crazy people in their own way.
But the idea of philosophy was to examine life
in a way that you could live fully.
And that meant taking full responsibility about things.
And in re-reading Plato, one gets the sense,
these were very, I think people were actually smarter then.
I hate to say it.
I think they were very, very smart
in the midst of their low technology.
We think technology means we're smart.
It doesn't.
It doesn't, no.
But they're examining their life
in a way that wasn't self-indulgent,
but it was geared towards living fully.
And it's a very beautiful thing when you think of it.
But people are not taught about autonomy in schools.
Schools are exercise and submission.
Do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that.
I'll give you one example that completely shocked me.
I asked a very lovely young teenage girl here
as a friend of a, daughter of a friend of mine, musician,
what she was reading in her, in school,
which novels she was reading in her last year of school.
She said, oh, well, we don't really read novels,
whole books like that.
We just read excerpts.
Wow.
And I said, are you kidding me?
This is a private girl's school in Wellington.
I said, you gotta be kidding me.
She's not kidding me.
Okay, the educational stuff, the educational system
is really dumbing people down.
And at a time when they would be hungry
for reading books or adventures of discovery
and self-discovery, they're reading excerpts
of this here and there, it was appalling.
Anyway, I gave her a few books and she's read them.
She's a social kid.
Three or four minutes left.
And on that point, Manny, I spoke to someone yesterday
from one of Australia's top secondary schools.
And that issue is happening, Stephen, in Australia,
where these top schools are pressured by government.
And because these top schools have alumni,
old boys, old girls who are in government
pushing the narrative, the parents are pissed off about it,
but anyone who speaks up against the woke transgender,
politically correct agenda at the schools
are ostracised and pressured by the school council
to shut up or get out.
Yeah.
So they don't want autonomous human beings, do they?
Partly because the teacher doesn't even use the word
autonomous, but it's a very important word, actually,
because if we had autonomous doctors,
if we had had in the last four years,
instead of all this evidence-based medicine
and the predilection for protocols and guidelines,
then we wouldn't have had a problem.
But no, we had protocols and guidelines
and evidence-based medicine,
and we didn't have autonomous doctors,
although I thought that we did.
And I was very surprised when they turned out
to be completely lacking in autonomy.
So what happened to informed consent
within the evidence-based medicine framework, Stephen?
Yeah, that seems to have been an exception.
Very interesting, isn't it?
Very, yeah.
So there was no possibility, Emmanuel,
I realised straight away, there was no possibility
that informed consent could be obtained
by any human being in the world,
because guess what?
Not a single doctor in the world knew what was in the shots.
So he couldn't explain, he couldn't give the information
to the patients, his patients.
But of course, the doctors weren't even doing the,
well, some of them were actually,
weren't even doing the vaccinations,
they were getting hairdressers.
They took that, exactly, they took it away from doctors.
But you couldn't, you can inform people by saying,
listen, this is something new,
it has not been tested adequately,
it has not had the test of years,
which would normally take any medicine
or intervention to be developed.
We don't know what may happen.
I mean, honestly, but again,
I'm so sick of talking about the jab.
The jab was never necessary.
The jab is a disaster.
And yet for many people,
it was deemed by them as the only way out
of this horrific fear that had been induced
by the other people.
All right, Stephen, we're gonna go,
that's wonderful, two and a half hours.
Again, Stephen, I criticise our guest
for not having to go to the toilet.
Manny, it shows you are not drinking enough water
unless you've got a special tube hidden somewhere.
No, you've got good fluid balance, Charles.
That's right, that's right.
All right, Stephen, Manny,
thank you so much for sharing your truth.
I love the fact that you write what you feel like writing.
That's the future, each one of us sees life differently.
That's the essence of love.
And I wanna share an interesting quote
from a wonderful book, everybody.
I don't know if you've seen it,
The Tools of Titans by Tim Ferriss.
I'm a big fan of Tim Ferriss, totally alternative thinking.
Tools of Titans has got about 250 true Titans,
tools of Titans.
And there's a wonderful, for example, on Whitney Cummings.
I don't know if you've ever heard of Whitney Cummings,
American comedian.
And a lot of these people are spectacular in their lives,
what they've achieved, I've never heard of them,
just shows you how many wonderful people there are.
And there was this beautiful quote
that I wanna share with you before we go.
And Manny, it ties into your whole theme
of the perspective, of the loss of friends.
And Whitney Cummings, look her up,
I think if you can find it about Whitney,
she's well known, where's her website?
Her website is WhitneyCummings.com,
W-H-I-T-N-E-Y-C-U-W-M-I-N-G-S.
And here's her definition of love.
My definition of love is being willing to die for someone
who you yourself want to kill.
That in my experience is kind of the deal.
My definition of love is being willing to die
for someone who you yourself want to kill.
So there you are, there's a thought provoking thought
for all of us.
Pretty easy to love people who agree with us.
The challenge is loving those who disagree with us.
So there's the thought, everybody please.
Oh, can I just say one last thing about Emmanuel?
So I think one of the things that Manuel,
I have thought of this actually, but I keep forgetting it.
And Emmanuel brought it up.
When you're talking to people one to one,
give them your full attention and give them time.
And you do get rewarded, because I've tried to be,
I've been trying to do that in the last three or four months.
And it's amazing what kind of connection you make.
Even with people on the phone,
if you give them your full attention,
and time, because a lot of people feel rushed
in conversations and the reason they interrupt is one,
because they think they're gonna forget
what they want to say.
And two, they don't feel they have time.
And we need to make time.
You've given me a great deal of time here.
And I have to say, I feel quite privileged
to have been part of this and to absorb this wonderful energy
and the thoughts and questions from everybody.
It's inspiring.
And as you say, Charles,
there are more people doing wonderful things
we don't know about all around the world.
And we should keep that in mind.
And I was given a glimpse of some of these wonders today.
Well said, thank you, Manny.
Thank you, Stephen.
Thank you, everybody.
Have a wonderful, wonderful Tuesday night, Wednesday.
And we'll be back with you on Sunday, Monday.
Bye.
Bye, thanks, Manny.
Bye, Charles, thank you.
And I have a place for Manny, for those of you.
Thank you, Emmanuel.
Thank you.
Very good.
A decent psychiatrist.
Do you have a good opinion of your colleagues, Emmanuel?
It all depends which ones.
No, I mean, the psychiatrist, because...
Yeah, it depends which.
There's a lot of, yeah, that's a long topic, Stephen.
I don't wanna get into that so much.
Yeah.
All right, off we go.
One of the things I've noticed,
one of the things I've noticed, Manny,
sorry, Charles, we're just having a little chat
so you cut us off.
One of the things I've noticed is that, you know,
they are doctors, psychiatrists, but the weird thing is,
so I have met very few psychiatrists.
And when I'm looking for a psychiatrist for my patients,
it's very difficult to find one I trust.
And so I end up referring the patient
to a clinical psychologist, who I found very, very helpful
when I was working for the military,
the consultant clinical psychologist,
much better than the military psychiatrist.
All right, we're stopping this recording and we're going.
You guys, you keep talking.
Have a conversation.
Okay, bye everybody.