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Everybody, we've got [privacy contact redaction]e here. Welcome. Let's get this show on the road. Anna is ready to go.
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I'll introduce her in a moment. So welcome to Medical Doctors for COVID Ethics founded by Stephen
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0:00:13 --> 0:00:[privacy contact redaction] and his genius. I'm Charles Covess, your moderator in Australia. I wear my red jacket
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because I'm Australasia's passion provocateur. Really is the colour of passion and all of us here
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are passionate about freedom and truth and justice and the Nuremberg Code.
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There are lots of professions here. If this is the first time that you are here, please
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introduce yourself in the chat. You are most welcome. The chat is a wonderful resource.
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Please put your name, properly describe your name so that we know who you are and we welcome you.
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0:00:54 --> 0:01:[privacy contact redaction]oration and discovery and the exploration of true science.
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And I'm very much influenced by Michael Crichton, the writer's quote,
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that when someone tells you the science is settled, reach for your wallet.
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0:01:18 --> 0:01:[privacy contact redaction]and we're in World War Three.
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0:01:24 --> 0:01:[privacy contact redaction] a presenter and then Q&A for the questions after
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Anna de Busseret, a lawyer, is our presenter today. Use the reactions tab to put your hand
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0:01:37 --> 0:01:[privacy contact redaction]er. After the two and a half hours, Tom Rodman
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organises a video telegram conversation where it's less structured. If you have the time to
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keep going, that's an opportunity to keep discussing. There is no censorship here. This
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is a free speech environment, but there is proper moderation. So please understand the distinction
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between being properly moderated and you thinking there's not free speech. Free speech doesn't mean
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that you can talk wherever you'd like. So that's what moderation is about. But free speech is
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crucial. And this discussion group encourages free speech, different ideas. And if you're upset
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by anything that the speaker says, great, be upset. The speaker didn't upset you, you upset you.
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So the other issue that happens in this discussion group is that somebody says,
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I've got a solution to something and they put it in the chat. And somebody else says that solution
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doesn't work. Well, go and have a private discussion elsewhere. But if anyone's got a solution,
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put it in the chat. And if someone else thinks it doesn't work, put it in the chat. But you don't
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0:02:53 --> 0:02:[privacy contact redaction] a ding dong argument because all you do is make a fool of yourself in front of all the
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0:02:57 --> 0:03:[privacy contact redaction]s. So, you know, we're not going to censor anyone who puts
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something in the chat. And I ignore quite frankly, the stuff. I love the chat and I ignore the
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0:03:13 --> 0:03:[privacy contact redaction]e. But it's the exploration of ideas. I get such
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wonderful insights from the chat. I hope you do as well. The our fundamental principle is
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we aim to come from love, not fear. As you see, most of the world comes from fear. So this is a
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place where we encourage coming from your soul, passion, love, not fear. Have an open mind.
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I hope your self awareness increases through this journey. Because at the end of the day,
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when you get a new idea, like Mark Bailey, who spoke to us last week, so the last Sunday night,
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0:03:56 --> 0:04:[privacy contact redaction]e get upset if somebody dares say something with which they disagree. And indeed,
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on the C19 group today, you know, Jay Sanchez is coming out and saying that Robert Malone is
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controlled opposition, blah, blah, blah. Well, he might have that opinion doesn't make it true.
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So everybody, we're on a learning journey. Love, wonderful to have you here. Stephen,
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well done for organizing this group and Anna de Boussoure from the UK. Welcome. We are in
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your metaphorical hands. Thank you, Charles. Hello, everybody. And thank you for participating
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tonight. So as you've read from my from the invitation, I'm a lawyer, but I'm also an
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army officer with the British Army, although I'm not currently serving, still under a call up
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liability for the next three years, but not currently posted. But when I look at the Nuremberg
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trials, I come at it not just with a legal head on but with a military head on, you know, and with
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0:05:03 --> 0:05:[privacy contact redaction]oms of war. And so what I find interesting about the Nuremberg
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trials is that it's interesting to find out how you could read those unless you actually did
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0:05:17 --> 0:05:[privacy contact redaction]oms of war. If you were just reading them in isolation, because they have
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to be put in the context of the legal framework at the time. But before I launch into that,
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I wanted to say that, you know, what's really interesting about reading these trials is that
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it's very clear that we've got the same problem then as we do now, which is that you had a whole
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0:05:40 --> 0:05:[privacy contact redaction]ors who were either conscripted into the military or who were voluntarily in the
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military, who were caught up in the war machinery, and were being asked to do all kinds of things
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such as breach their medical ethics and resulting in the heinous crimes that we now are aware of.
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And when you think about what's happening today, there are the same kind of parallels.
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0:06:07 --> 0:06:[privacy contact redaction]s of warfare, again, before we launch into what was actually being done by
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0:06:13 --> 0:06:[privacy contact redaction]ors, and take a step back, in warfare, there are means and methods of warfare that are
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lawful and means of methods of warfare that are unlawful. And there are also restricted methods.
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0:06:27 --> 0:06:[privacy contact redaction] analysis from the two generals in America, General McInnery and Paul Valerly,
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0:06:35 --> 0:06:[privacy contact redaction]ed warfare. And in fact, there were two Chinese generals,
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I think they wrote a paper in 1991, about how a country with less military might could indeed
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kinds of means and methods of warfare being deployed against us, many of which are prohibited under
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the various warfare conventions. But likewise, back in Nazi Germany, a very similar thing was
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0:07:14 --> 0:07:[privacy contact redaction] to ask ourselves how we've ended up in the same place today as we did then.
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But in that context, with that context in mind, you know, what the German doctors were doing,
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0:07:27 --> 0:07:[privacy contact redaction]ually. They were either medically ethically appropriate,
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or they weren't. Okay, so what we need to do is we need to understand that greater context,
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0:07:47 --> 0:07:[privacy contact redaction]ors were claiming, of course, that many of the things that they were
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doing were either necessity, or they were, you know, lawfully following orders, following the
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government's guidance, similar kind of thing today. So before I launch into it, though,
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because what I propose to do is go through the, if I show it to you, this is part two, volume two,
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and that's not all of it, of the medical cases, trials of war criminals before the
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near military tribunals. And what it does is it starts off looking at the necessity
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0:08:28 --> 0:08:[privacy contact redaction]ed by the Germans, the doctors rather, and then looking
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0:08:36 --> 0:08:[privacy contact redaction]ess of the experimentation, and then going into medical ethics as they were at the time,
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asking both the defence and the prosecution their evidence on the general state of medical ethics
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at that point in time. And then both sides give their evidence under cross-examination,
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their documents that they're relying on, and then it leads into the judgement. So before,
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and the sentencing. So that's the structure of it, and this runs to around
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around 300 pages I've got here. So what I propose to do is to read the key sort of passages out of
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the prosecution and the defence are, and then the main points of the judgement. But given there were
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something like 20 defendants, I don't propose to go through the evidence for each one, because
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a lot of it is repeated. But also I think we ought to concentrate on the main defendant, Carl Brandt,
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because he was charged with many of the offences and indeed found guilty and hanged. So I thought
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we could go through his evidence, one of the others who got life imprisonment, and then one who was
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not guilty, so that you could try and see the comparison about why one was found guilty and
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hanged, one was put in jail, and then one was found not guilty. So that's what I propose to do.
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But before I launch into that, first of all, does that sound helpful? But mostly, are there anything,
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is there anything in particular you'd like me to focus on? Because what I'm proposing to focus on
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0:10:28 --> 0:10:[privacy contact redaction]ate of medical ethics at that time, and then how they were judged
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0:10:35 --> 0:10:[privacy contact redaction]ance with that. So Anna, let's ask Stephen, that sounds excellent with your planning,
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and then if anyone has other elements, then they can put it in the chat and I'll bring it to your
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attention as we go through, Anna, so that you're not distracted by having to read the chat. Stephen,
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are you happy with Anna's planned course of action? Yes, that's fine, Anna. Maybe if you could
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0:11:01 --> 0:11:[privacy contact redaction] it in how the Neuronberg trials arose. Presumably, there were people saying in the
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Second World War and before, oh, they can't do anything about this, but they did do something
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0:11:15 --> 0:11:[privacy contact redaction]ed military tribunals and presumably they changed laws or made laws,
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I don't know how it worked, but that would be very interesting. Yeah, well, so, okay, so essentially,
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obviously, as we know, what happened was that during the war, there were increasing reports
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of horrors being committed at various concentration and labour camps, and indeed, the House of
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0:11:41 --> 0:11:[privacy contact redaction]atement, I think it was in 1942 or 1943, acknowledging these reports
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and condemning them, but acknowledging that until we'd won the war, we couldn't bring these people
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to trial. And so, to a certain extent, it was a case of having to release the prisoners each
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time ground was made and these camps were discovered. But ultimately, evidence was being
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gathered all the time and then as soon as they were able to, the military tribunals were established
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and various defendants were brought to trial under different categories, as we know. The main
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military soldiers were brought to trial in the first set of tribunal hearings, but then the doctors
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were the judges, media personnel, bankers, all different categories of people who were, you know,
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considered to be main perpetrators of the main atrocities were brought to trial. So, what happened
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0:12:42 --> 0:12:[privacy contact redaction] the legal framework to judge these people was already in existence for most of the
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0:12:51 --> 0:12:[privacy contact redaction]ing war conventions, there were new crimes that were defined because
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0:12:59 --> 0:13:[privacy contact redaction]ing legislation, there wasn't a definition that covered the kind of atrocities
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that were occurring. So, what they created was a council law 10, I think it was called,
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hold on, I'll just find it in the judgment, it sets it out quite clearly here. The jurisdiction
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of the tribunal, this is on page 172 of the tribunal, so it says the jurisdiction and powers
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of this tribunal are fixed and determined by law number 10 of the control council for Germany. So,
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0:13:29 --> 0:13:[privacy contact redaction]s, when the allies took over and put their government in place of the
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the newly occupied territories of the winning country, they put in place this law number 10,
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which allowed for certain crimes to be brought within the jurisdiction of the tribunal.
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So, article two of that said that each of the following acts is recognised as a crime,
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in brackets B, war crimes, atrocities or offences against persons or property constituting violations
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0:14:00 --> 0:14:[privacy contact redaction]oms of war, including but not limited to murder, ill treatment or deportation
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or for any other purpose of civilian population from occupied territory, murder or ill treatment
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of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private
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property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages or devastation not justified by military
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necessity. Okay, so very clearly in war crimes is murder and ill treatment etc of people,
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now giving medical treatment or experimentation without consent lawfully given and they die
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can amount to a war crime as you can see because it's either ill treatment or it's murder, prima
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facie. So that's that one and then it goes on to say, oh actually here, sorry it hasn't got crimes
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0:14:58 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction] humanity defined because the page is missing. This is the original one that I printed
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0:15:06 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction]ually as I've gone through it there are several pages missing and one of those is that
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0:15:11 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction] humanity but it's essentially the same definition as it is now,
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0:15:16 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction]s that you can commit a crime such as torture, imprisonment, rape,
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0:15:24 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction]ry, medical segregation. So they put those in the law council number [privacy contact redaction]
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0:15:34 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction]ion to the tribunal to judge them on that basis. In fact, sorry here I have just found the
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0:15:44 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction] humanity, so sorry folks it's a bit of a... crimes against humanity atrocities and
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0:15:49 --> 0:15:[privacy contact redaction]er, extermination, enslavement, deportation,
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imprisonment, torture, rape or other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population
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or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds whether or not in violation of the domestic
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laws of the country were perpetrated. Okay so and then what they did was that it wasn't just people
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who perpetrated they dealt with aiding and abetting so paragraph two of that part of the order says
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0:16:23 --> 0:16:[privacy contact redaction] to nationality or the capacity in which he acted is deemed to have
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committed a crime as defined in this article if he was a a principal or b was an accessory to the
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0:16:36 --> 0:16:[privacy contact redaction]ered or abetted the same or c took a consenting part therein or
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0:16:44 --> 0:16:[privacy contact redaction]ans or enterprises involving its commission or e was a member of any
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0:16:50 --> 0:16:[privacy contact redaction]ed with the commission of any such crime so you can see that's very
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broadly defined so that you can catch all the people in the chain of causation from the person
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0:17:04 --> 0:17:[privacy contact redaction]er all the way through to the people who executed it
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0:17:12 --> 0:17:[privacy contact redaction]e involved in between. Anna this is a really crucial point and I think so we've
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0:17:19 --> 0:17:[privacy contact redaction]e as you know that the Nuremberg code doesn't apply but the fact is
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and they didn't have a Nuremberg code before the second world war they had a kind of rough series
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of rules which they abided by when it came to medical ethics but the point is that they did
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0:17:40 --> 0:17:[privacy contact redaction]e say that the Nuremberg code doesn't apply at the moment
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0:17:46 --> 0:17:[privacy contact redaction]y in the future if it doesn't apply now you see what I mean? Yeah I mean that
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that's um I'm going to go on to the bit about the what existed at the time of these trials because
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0:17:57 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction] a set of medical principles already but what the tribunal goes into is the
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evidence both for the prosecution and the defense about the precise nature of those medical ethics
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0:18:12 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction]ied to live human experiments so what they did in the in the course of the trial was
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0:18:19 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction] Ivy from America who was asked to give his view on what
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0:18:28 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction]es were and he cites three initially including of course the first one is
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0:18:35 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction] is absolutely essential and the Germans give their
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0:18:41 --> 0:18:[privacy contact redaction]anding of medical ethics and then between them all what they do is they identify what are
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the generally accepted medical ethics at the time and out of that comes the [privacy contact redaction]es which then
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become the Nuremberg code but if I take you through the um the tribunal's way of dealing with that I
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think you'll find it really interesting because I will come on to that in more detail Stephen
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because yes your essential point is that you know first of all the Nuremberg code wasn't a new idea
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0:19:14 --> 0:19:[privacy contact redaction]ence in firm medical ethics but secondly the need for it was because
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it was recognized that it wasn't in a easily read format and so one of the defendants makes the point
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that that would be the job for the tribunal to actually put it in written form so that there can
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0:19:33 --> 0:19:[privacy contact redaction] is that the Nuremberg code then became enshrined in the
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Geneva declaration issued by the world medical association in 1950 which bound all physicians
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so it was the Nuremberg code you know on steroids and then in 1964 both the Nuremberg code and the
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Geneva declaration were essentially enshrined in the Helsinki declaration and then the Helsinki
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0:20:04 --> 0:20:[privacy contact redaction]atute law in the medicines for human use clinical trials
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regulations so certainly in the UK the Nuremberg code has effectively become enshrined in statute
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law but it's also binding criminal case law I mean you know the the beauty of case law judgments
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which is why they're such important reading is because the judges take the existing laws and
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0:20:34 --> 0:20:[privacy contact redaction]cumstances of the case explaining as they do so how the law is
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0:20:41 --> 0:20:[privacy contact redaction]ance which you don't get from simply reading the penal code
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or you know the the code of medical ethics and that's why case law is so important but it's also
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why it's binding because you know if you have a similar set of facts such as today where you've
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0:21:02 --> 0:21:[privacy contact redaction]ing live human experiments on people then you know the same
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0:21:08 --> 0:21:[privacy contact redaction]y which is why case law is binding because the idea is that if
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you spend all this time and trouble on deciding facts on the law then you don't necessarily want
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to go through the whole exercise again because that's why it's binding on on other courts so
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0:21:29 --> 0:21:[privacy contact redaction]ion that the Nuremberg code isn't binding certainly in the UK
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0:21:34 --> 0:21:[privacy contact redaction]ual judgment then and read you some bits out of it
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I think that'd be very helpful so the bit about medical ethics
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0:21:51 --> 0:21:[privacy contact redaction]arts with both sides giving arguments about whether or not experiments are necessary
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0:21:58 --> 0:22:[privacy contact redaction]ate of war so for example you had typhus outbreaks and you had soldiers
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0:22:05 --> 0:22:[privacy contact redaction]ed wounds on the front or you know shipwrecked people not being able to survive
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you know out on sea so they were doing all these experiments to sensibly help their own
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soldiers and their own population to deal with the challenges including vaccination programs so
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what you'll see is a number of the experiments that were being conducted that they're being
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in terms of arguing the necessity the evidence that's first that's put forward into in the
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0:22:47 --> 0:22:[privacy contact redaction] from the testimony of the defendant on examination so the
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0:22:55 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]ion of the necessity for an experiment is it your view that it is for
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0:23:01 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]ate to determine the extreme necessity for such an experiment and thereafter those who serve
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0:23:07 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]ate are to be bound by that procedure i think you can answer that yes or no defendant
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carl brandt this trial shows that it will be the task of the state under all circumstances basically
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0:23:19 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]ion for the future what kind of answer is that question witness as i
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0:23:26 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]atements a moment ago they were that the physician having once become the soldier
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0:23:33 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]inate such medical ethical views as he may have when they are in conflict
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0:23:38 --> 0:23:[privacy contact redaction]er from higher authority is that true and carl brandt says i didn't want to
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express it in that form i didn't did not mean to say that the physician the moment he becomes a
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medical officer should change his basic attitude as a physician such an order can in the very same
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0:23:55 --> 0:24:[privacy contact redaction]essed to a physician who is not a soldier i was referring to the entire situation
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as it prevailed with us in germany during the time of an authoritarian leadership
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this authoritarian leadership interfered with the personality and the personal feelings of the human
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being the moment an individuality is absorbed into the concept of a collective body every demand
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which is put to that individuality has to be absorbed into the concept of a collective system
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0:24:24 --> 0:24:[privacy contact redaction]d above every individual human being as an entity
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0:24:30 --> 0:24:[privacy contact redaction]etely used in the interest of that society the difficult
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0:24:36 --> 0:24:[privacy contact redaction] to understand basically is that during our entire period
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0:24:42 --> 0:24:[privacy contact redaction] of humanity so that the individual person had no meaning
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whatsoever and the further the war progressed the stronger did this principle thought appear
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this was designated in the end as total war unrestricted warfare right and in accordance
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0:25:00 --> 0:25:[privacy contact redaction]ers quite generally and demanded that orders be carried out
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it was very tragic for a number of persons not only within the framework of these experiments
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but also in other situations that they had to work under such orders without considering the
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entire situation as it prevailed in germany one cannot understand the question of these particular
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experiments at all now that's the main defendant carl brant's evidence on the necessity so in other
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0:25:26 --> 0:25:[privacy contact redaction]s he's saying that the the authoritarian leadership was such that you know you just took
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0:25:34 --> 0:25:[privacy contact redaction] accepted that it was necessary for the benefit of the collective
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over the need of the individual now his evidence on that point is echoed by most of the defendants
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0:25:47 --> 0:25:[privacy contact redaction]eaded not guilty to the atrocities and they all plead guilty on the same
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kind of basis as carl brant which was oh it was necessary it was necessary to do all of these
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0:26:00 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction]ate of war we you know the benefit of the collective was more important than
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0:26:09 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction] following orders and that was essentially what each one of them
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was saying so what the tribunal then does is that they ask the prosecution
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0:26:25 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction]ew the witness the expert witness dr andrew ivy from america his view on the necessity
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0:26:33 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction]imony of prosecution expert witness dr andrew ivy under
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cross-examination dr servetus witness take the following case you are in a city in which the
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0:26:44 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction]ug that you could use to combat the plague however you
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0:26:49 --> 0:26:[privacy contact redaction] it on somebody the commander or let us say the mayor of the city comes to you and says
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sorry here is a criminal condemned to death save us by carrying out the experiment on this man
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would you refuse to do so or would you do it now i need to interject here because one of the
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0:27:10 --> 0:27:[privacy contact redaction] was that they weren't really killing people they were taking
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condemned prisoners and using them as an experimentation if they died they would have
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0:27:24 --> 0:27:[privacy contact redaction] because they were condemned to death that was one of their arguments which is
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dealt with in great detail and basically that's an argument is rejected saying you can't take a
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prisoner who you think has been condemned to death who might not actually be condemned to death
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0:27:41 --> 0:27:[privacy contact redaction]em and essentially execute them in the course of a medical experimentation
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0:27:48 --> 0:27:[privacy contact redaction] this is the question that he's being asked of dr ivy you know
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here's a criminal experiment on them for the greater good dr ivy says i would refuse to do so
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because i do not believe that duress of that sort warrants breaking of ethical and moral principles
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that is why the hag convention and geneva conventions were formulated to make war a
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barbaric enterprise a little more humane questions you believe that the population of a city would
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0:28:17 --> 0:28:[privacy contact redaction]ion answer they have understanding for the importance of
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0:28:22 --> 0:28:[privacy contact redaction]es of medical ethics which apply over a long period of years
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in a short period of years physicians and medical scientists should do nothing with the idea of
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temporarily doing good which when compared up carried out repeatedly over a period of time
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0:28:38 --> 0:28:[privacy contact redaction]ize a method for doing good if a medical scientist breaks the code of
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medical ethics and says kill the person in order to do what he thinks may be good in the course
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of time that will grow and will cause a loss of faith of the public in the medical profession
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0:28:54 --> 0:28:[privacy contact redaction]roy the capacity of the medical profession to do its good for society the reason
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0:28:59 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction] be very careful in the use of human beings as subjects in medical experiments
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0:29:04 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction]ize this method for doing great good by causing the public
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0:29:09 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction]s the only reason you shouldn't do it is because otherwise
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the public would lose faith in you a bit of a dodgy argument it says but witness do you not
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believe that your ideal attitude here is more or less that of a single person standing against
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the body of public opinion answer no i do not that's why i read out the principles of medical
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0:29:35 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction]ay and that is why the american medical association has agreed essentially to
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0:29:40 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction]es the ethical principles for the use of human beings
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0:29:45 --> 0:29:[privacy contact redaction] been quite uniform throughout the world in the past and they go on
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to talk about the hippocratic oath and the importance of that and he goes into that in
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0:29:59 --> 0:30:[privacy contact redaction] want to get to there's so much to go through here
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pages and pages of it so i've only you know called out the main bits and sometimes it won't sound
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quite right to you because obviously it's not in the greater context but yeah so basically he's
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essentially saying there that you know the principles of the medical ethics as put forward
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by the medical american the american medical association were already in existence and had
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been for some some time and we already know that of course and that's the point that you know the
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urinberg code didn't come out of nothing it was already essentially in existence
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um
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0:30:47 --> 0:30:[privacy contact redaction] from the closing statement of the prosecution under the section on
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subjugation to medical experimentation as a substitute for penalties and this talks about
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several of the defendants argued that medical experiments alleged that medical experiments
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alleged as criminal upon concentration camp inmates were justified because they were a
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0:31:12 --> 0:31:[privacy contact redaction]itute for penalty or punishment previously imposed on the experimental subjects and that's
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0:31:18 --> 0:31:[privacy contact redaction]ion where they talk about um the fact that you know that therefore it was justified
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but it goes on to say here from the closing statement of the prosecution the proof in this
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0:31:30 --> 0:31:[privacy contact redaction]rated beyond all doubt that the so-called criminal sentenced to death were very
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rarely used in any of the experiments um there's been no proof whatever that criminal sentenced
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0:31:43 --> 0:31:[privacy contact redaction] could possibly be executed in a concentration camp experimentation
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on such person is to compound the crime of his initial unlawful detention as well as to commit
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0:31:55 --> 0:32:[privacy contact redaction]er or torture as has been said by another tribunal exculpation from the
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charge of criminal homicide can possibly be based only upon bona fide proof that the subject had
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0:32:08 --> 0:32:[privacy contact redaction]er or any other legally recognized capital offense and not even then unless the
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sentencing tribunal with authority granted by the state in the constitution of the court declared
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0:32:19 --> 0:32:[privacy contact redaction]ished by means of a low pressure chamber so in other words the
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0:32:24 --> 0:32:[privacy contact redaction]ify doing that was if a sentence of the court had already said that they
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0:32:29 --> 0:32:[privacy contact redaction] so again the the idea that the doctors in the third rike actually
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thought that it was a reasonable thing to do raises very serious questions about um why they
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considered that that would be ethical but when you go into the later evidence it becomes
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quite clear why they um thought it was ethical and that what the defense defense does is produce
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copious amounts of evidence to prove that in fact conducting live human experimentation in the way
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0:33:05 --> 0:33:[privacy contact redaction]ors were doing was uh had been conducted um for well since 1791 they've produced
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0:33:14 --> 0:33:[privacy contact redaction] um and by americans the brits the italians um all across the world in fact and what the german
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0:33:23 --> 0:33:[privacy contact redaction]ors therefore say is that you should you know if you're judging us for doing things during a
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0:33:30 --> 0:33:[privacy contact redaction] done in the first world war before then and therefore you're
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condemning us unfairly essentially and so they put forward that argument um and carl brand again the
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closing brief of the defendant
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0:33:51 --> 0:33:[privacy contact redaction]ment embraces certain medical experiments which are called war crimes and crimes
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0:33:56 --> 0:34:[privacy contact redaction]ing to paragraphs [privacy contact redaction]ment these experiments are designated
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as crimes as a violation of the general principles of criminal law as evolved from the penal law of
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all civilized nations as well as violations of the national penal laws of the countries in which such
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crimes were committed an indication of their punishable character was seen in the fact that
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the experiments were carried out without the consent of the persons experimented on however
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0:34:24 --> 0:34:[privacy contact redaction] examine whether this consent of the person subjected to experiments is always necessary
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0:34:29 --> 0:34:[privacy contact redaction]er of the state through the penal administration and further
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0:34:34 --> 0:34:[privacy contact redaction]ies to the execution of sentences on foreigners if consent to the to
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the human experiment by the person experimented on can be replaced by an order of the state
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then the person responsible for the experiment cannot be punished in cases where the experiments
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were carried out through the official penal administration in accordance with the order
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so i don't know if that basically makes sense to you but again they're arguing that consent doesn't
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0:35:01 --> 0:35:[privacy contact redaction] to be obtained it could be given by the state which again i think is a very dodgy
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placement to come tom but that was their defense um sorry as i say folks it might seem a bit
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disjointed because i'm having to go through so many pages of it here please bear with me um
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so essentially what they then do the defense is that they then bring in loads of evidence to prove
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0:35:38 --> 0:35:[privacy contact redaction] that there were all these sorry all these experiments being run by people
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all over the world and i wanted to read you some of them because it's actually quite horrifying
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so here we go so
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0:36:01 --> 0:36:[privacy contact redaction] from the final plea for the defendant gherpard
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evidence has now proved that in recent decades and even earlier numerous experiments were carried
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out on human beings and moreover on persons who did not volunteer for such purposes in this respect
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0:36:17 --> 0:36:[privacy contact redaction]atements of the expert you know witness in nearly all countries experiments have
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been performed on human beings under conditions which entirely exclude volunteering in a legal
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sense um
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0:36:33 --> 0:36:[privacy contact redaction] that a criminal event no the court for this reason will not
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0:36:37 --> 0:36:[privacy contact redaction] that particularly during the last years even outside germany
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0:36:42 --> 0:36:47
medical experiments were performed on human beings who undoubtedly did not volunteer
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and they go on to say in another one of the defendants one uh the extract from the final
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plea for the defendant beagle book he says my learned colleagues have compiled a long list
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of documents on human experiments especially from the western democracies um
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here we go
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sorry
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yeah
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well it's just it was really really horrifying actually i might have to put it together in a
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separate one here we go medical experiments in other countries here we go the practice of
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medical experiment and human beings in other countries was brought out by the defense in an
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effort to show that the medical experimentation in which these defendants engaged was not criminal
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okay so that what they say is that um one should compare among others the plague experiments by
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0:38:02 --> 0:38:[privacy contact redaction]s including an experiment on 42 persons some of whom were
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0:38:09 --> 0:38:15
persons sentenced to death and the typhus experiments by hamdi on 153
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there was here we go there's ones on children where they talk about the fact that
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it was a particularly horrifying one where this stuff this chap has taken the
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uh i'm sorry guys i wish it was much easier to read yes here we go a report on infectious
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0:38:40 --> 0:38:[privacy contact redaction]ious colitis observed in children so they quote this from 1885
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0:38:46 --> 0:38:[privacy contact redaction]ion of the conjunctiva caused by
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vaginal secretion by chance i had the possibility to inoculate the vaginal secretion of sick women
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0:38:56 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction]en patients who were in the final stage of the disease
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0:39:02 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction]en died one and a half and two days after the inoculation without
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0:39:06 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction] child contracted conjunctivitis
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which healed after treatment and died on the 10th day three moribund children and they use
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0:39:16 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction] through from the end of the 18th century through to the first world
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war of experiments all around the world essentially saying what we were doing was normal and indeed one
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of the criticisms that comes out of the trial when you read about it later is that in many ways that
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0:39:37 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction]ors were in fact doing what the british medical profession and the
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0:39:43 --> 0:39:[privacy contact redaction] world wars and prior to that so that's the context of
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their defense essentially that it was necessary that they were conducting it on prisoners who
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0:39:57 --> 0:40:[privacy contact redaction] that loads of other countries were also doing the same thing
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and essentially therefore that they were not guilty and they didn't feel guilty for any of the crimes
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so what happens then is that there's then final pleas from everyone and it comes onto the judgment
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0:40:20 --> 0:40:[privacy contact redaction] important
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right so and this gives a bit of the context that you were asking for earlier as well
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0:40:40 --> 0:40:[privacy contact redaction]ablished on the 25th of october [privacy contact redaction]er
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0:40:47 --> 0:40:[privacy contact redaction]ates military government for germany it was the first of several
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0:40:53 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction]ituted in the u.s zone of occupation pursuant to military government
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0:41:00 --> 0:41:05
ordinance number seven for the trial of offenses recognized as crimes by law number 10 of the
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control council for germany law number 10 was the one i read out earlier that defined war crimes
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0:41:10 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction] humanity so by the terms of the order which established the tribunal
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0:41:16 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction]ered to convene at nuremberg to hear the cases as might be filed
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0:41:21 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction]ober the chief counsel lodged an indictment against the defendants copy of
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0:41:26 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction]ment was served on each defendant on the 5th of november
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0:41:32 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction]ed in two languages it consumed 139 trial days
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including six days allocated for final arguments during the 133 trial days used for the presentation
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0:41:46 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction] oral evidence for the prosecution 53 witnesses including the 23
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0:41:53 --> 0:41:[privacy contact redaction] oral evidence for the defense in addition the prosecution put in evidence as
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exhibits a total of 570 affidavits reports and documents the defense put in a total number of
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901 making a grand total of 1471 documents received in evidence so this was a substantial
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trial as you can hear which is one of the reasons i'm having difficulty going through all the papers
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get pages to get to the right points um but yeah then it goes into the jurisdiction and
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there goes into the charge okay so these is this is how each of them were charged the indictment
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0:42:32 --> 0:42:[privacy contact redaction]ment is framed in four counts count one the common design or conspiracy
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0:42:39 --> 0:42:[privacy contact redaction]ment charges that the defendants acting pursuant to a common design
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0:42:45 --> 0:42:50
unlawfully willfully and knowingly did conspire and agree together to commit war crimes and crimes
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0:42:50 --> 0:42:[privacy contact redaction] humanity um now there was a technical point there in that um they weren't able to
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fully pursue the conspiracy charge because of the way that the council number [privacy contact redaction]afted and
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so they had to amend that charge slightly but essentially um it was basically the common design
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that they were all in it together counts two and three war crimes and crimes against humanity
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0:43:16 --> 0:43:[privacy contact redaction]ment charged the commission of war crimes and crimes
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0:43:21 --> 0:43:[privacy contact redaction] humanity the counts are identical in content except for the fact that in count two
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0:43:26 --> 0:43:[privacy contact redaction]s which were made the basis for the charges are alleged to have been committed on civilians
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0:43:31 --> 0:43:36
and members of the armed forces then at war with the german reich whereas in count three
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0:43:36 --> 0:43:[privacy contact redaction] been committed against german civilians and nationals
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0:43:40 --> 0:43:45
of other countries um so essentially same crimes but different categories of people
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0:43:46 --> 0:43:52
um that were attacked essentially um now in terms of
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sorry counts two and three alleged in substance that between september 1939 and april 1945 all
402
0:44:02 --> 0:44:09
of the defendants were principals in accessories too ordered abetted took a consenting part in
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0:44:09 --> 0:44:[privacy contact redaction]ans and enterprises involving medical experiments without the
404
0:44:15 --> 0:44:[privacy contact redaction]'s consent in the course of which experiments the defendants committed murders
405
0:44:21 --> 0:44:28
brutalities cruelties tortures atrocities and other inhuman acts um it is a verb that such
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experiments included but were not limited to the following and i won't read them all out they
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include high altitude experiments freezing experiments but the main ones i've underlined
408
0:44:36 --> 0:44:42
the vaccine experiments because of course that's what's happening today so c malaria
409
0:44:42 --> 0:44:47
experiments from about february [privacy contact redaction]ed at the dacal
410
0:44:47 --> 0:44:[privacy contact redaction]igate immunization for and treatment of malaria
411
0:44:53 --> 0:45:00
healthy concentration camp inmates were infected by mosquitoes or injections etc etc um over a
412
0:45:00 --> 0:45:[privacy contact redaction]s were used in these experiments many of the victims died and others
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0:45:05 --> 0:45:11
suffered severe pain and permanent disability the defendants carl brandt and lazer rostock
414
0:45:11 --> 0:45:16
etc are charged with special responsibility for and participation in these crimes
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and then we've got other experiments lost gas sulfonide bone muscle ones um and then there's
416
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uh 176 hold on sorry um yes and then there's epidemic jaundice experiments
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0:45:33 --> 0:45:[privacy contact redaction]igate the causes of and inoculations against epidemic jaundice subjects were deliberately
418
0:45:39 --> 0:45:[privacy contact redaction]ed some of them died um then they had sterilization experiments which again you know
419
0:45:45 --> 0:45:[privacy contact redaction]ions are sterilizing people purpose of these experiments
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0:45:51 --> 0:45:[privacy contact redaction]erilization which would be suitable for sterilizing millions of
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0:45:56 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]e with a minimum of time and effort sound familiar these experiments were conducted by
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0:46:01 --> 0:46:06
means of x-rays surgery and various drugs thousands of victims were sterilized and
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thereby suffered great mental and physical anguish there were spotted fever experiments
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0:46:11 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]iveness of spotted fever and other vaccines um numerous healthy
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0:46:17 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]ed um as a result hundreds of persons experimented upon died
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0:46:24 --> 0:46:30
experiments with yellow fever smallpox typhus paratyphus a and b cholera and diphtheria will
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0:46:30 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]ed experiments with poison in or about december [privacy contact redaction]igate
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0:46:38 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]ims died a result of the poison or were killed
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0:46:43 --> 0:46:[privacy contact redaction]er to permit autopsies um in september [privacy contact redaction]s were
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0:46:50 --> 0:46:58
shocked with poison bullets and suffered torture and death so those were some of the main categories
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0:46:58 --> 0:47:02
of the experiments um in addition to the medical experiments the nature and purpose of which have
432
0:47:02 --> 0:47:08
been outlined as alleged certain of the defendants are charged with criminal activities involving
433
0:47:08 --> 0:47:[privacy contact redaction]er torture and ill treatment of non-german nationals as follows and i have to warn you one
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0:47:14 --> 0:47:24
of these is um uh pretty horrible hold on um this one in particular i think is horrendous um
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0:47:24 --> 0:47:[privacy contact redaction]ed for the purpose of completing a skeleton collection
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0:47:33 --> 0:47:40
um they their photographs and measurements were taken they were then killed um and the skeletons
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kept between 42 and 94 and 44 the defendants bloom and rudolph brant were principals in
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0:47:47 --> 0:47:[privacy contact redaction]er abetted took a consenting part and connected with plans and enterprise
439
0:47:53 --> 0:47:[privacy contact redaction]reatment of tens of thousands of polish nationals they were alleged
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0:47:58 --> 0:48:[privacy contact redaction]ed with incurable tuberculosis on the ground of ensuring the health and welfare of
441
0:48:04 --> 0:48:10
germans in poland many tubercular poles were ruthlessly exterminated while others were isolated
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0:48:10 --> 0:48:17
in death camps within adequate medical facilities and then the the final one of the other commission
443
0:48:17 --> 0:48:23
you know outside of experimentations was this one which we all know about the t4 program between
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0:48:23 --> 0:48:29
september 1939 and april 45 the defendants carl brandt bloom brackenhoven were principals in
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0:48:29 --> 0:48:[privacy contact redaction]ered abetted took a consenting part in and were connected with plans and
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0:48:34 --> 0:48:39
enterprises involving the execution of the so-called euthanasia program of the german reich
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0:48:40 --> 0:48:45
in the course of which the defendants herein murdered hundreds of thousands of human beings
448
0:48:46 --> 0:48:53
the program involved now personally i think what's happening at the moment is an updated version of
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0:48:53 --> 0:49:00
the t4 program this program involved the systematic and secret execution of the aged insane incurably
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0:49:00 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction]en and other persons by gas lethal injections and diverse other means in
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0:49:06 --> 0:49:12
nursing homes hospitals and asylums such persons regarded as useless eaters and a burden to the
452
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german war machine the relatives of these victims were informed that they died from natural causes
453
0:49:17 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction]ors involved in the euthanasia program are also sent to the eastern
454
0:49:26 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction] in the mass extermination of the jews
455
0:49:32 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction]ment conclude with the affirmation that the crimes and
456
0:49:35 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction] been delineated constitute violations of international conventions which
457
0:49:41 --> 0:49:[privacy contact redaction]omers of war which indeed they do the general principles
458
0:49:46 --> 0:49:51
of criminal law is derived from the criminal laws of all civilized nations which indeed they do
459
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and the internal penal laws of the country and then count four is membership of criminal
460
0:49:56 --> 0:50:01
organization which i won't go into because essentially what they were saying was that
461
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if um you know they decreed certain organizations as criminal such as the ss and therefore if a
462
0:50:09 --> 0:50:[privacy contact redaction]or was a member of the ss then account four was membership in a criminal organization but
463
0:50:16 --> 0:50:23
i won't go into that at the moment because that's more detail so this is the key part of the judgment
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now this is the bit that says the proof as to war crimes and crimes against humanity and then
465
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permissible medical experiments so judged by any standard of proof the record clearly shows the
466
0:50:36 --> 0:50:41
commission of war crimes and crimes against humanity substantially as alleged in counts two
467
0:50:41 --> 0:50:[privacy contact redaction]ment beginning with the outbreak of world war two criminal medical
468
0:50:45 --> 0:50:50
experiments on non-german nationals both prisoners of war and civilians including jews and asocial
469
0:50:50 --> 0:50:56
persons were carried out on a large scale in germany in the occupied territories these experiments
470
0:50:56 --> 0:51:[privacy contact redaction]s of individual doctors and scientists working solely on their
471
0:51:02 --> 0:51:[privacy contact redaction] of coordinated policy making and planning at high
472
0:51:07 --> 0:51:14
governmental military and nazi party levels conducted as an integral part of the total war
473
0:51:14 --> 0:51:19
effort now that's the key point right when we're talking about unrestricted means of methods of
474
0:51:19 --> 0:51:27
warfare how easy would it be to say oh we were conducting all these experiments you know necessary
475
0:51:27 --> 0:51:32
experiments for the good of our country whereas in fact what you were doing was selecting multiple
476
0:51:32 --> 0:51:[privacy contact redaction]ering them in inhumane ways you know essentially and saying oh we were doing
477
0:51:38 --> 0:51:[privacy contact redaction]ered sanctioned permitted or approved by persons
478
0:51:45 --> 0:51:50
in positions of authority who under all principles of law were under the duty to know about these
479
0:51:50 --> 0:51:[privacy contact redaction]eps to terminate or prevent them so that's the you know the proof that they
480
0:51:56 --> 0:52:01
happened they then talk about permissible medical experiments the great weight of the evidence
481
0:52:01 --> 0:52:[privacy contact redaction] that certain types of medical experiments on human beings when kept within
482
0:52:06 --> 0:52:11
reasonably well defined bounds conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally that's
483
0:52:11 --> 0:52:18
what they had decided in the preamble what were the existing medical ethics about experimentation
484
0:52:18 --> 0:52:25
you know was it normal to experiment on people and if so was it ethical and the answer was yes
485
0:52:25 --> 0:52:30
provided it was within certain bounds so the protagonists of the practice of human
486
0:52:31 --> 0:52:[privacy contact redaction]ify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good
487
0:52:36 --> 0:52:44
of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study all agree however that certain
488
0:52:44 --> 0:52:[privacy contact redaction]er to satisfy moral ethical and legal concepts
489
0:52:50 --> 0:52:57
and this is where they set out the [privacy contact redaction]es of the nierenberg code number one the voluntary
490
0:52:57 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction] is absolutely essential this means that the person involved
491
0:53:02 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction] legal capacity to give consent should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power
492
0:53:08 --> 0:53:16
of choice without the intervention of any element of force fraud deceit duress overreaching or other
493
0:53:16 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction]raint or coercion and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the
494
0:53:21 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction] matter involved so as to enable him to make an understanding and enlighten
495
0:53:25 --> 0:53:32
decision this latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the
496
0:53:32 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction] there should be made known to him the nature duration and purpose of the
497
0:53:38 --> 0:53:44
experiment the method and means by which it is to be conducted all inconveniences and hazards
498
0:53:44 --> 0:53:[privacy contact redaction]s upon his health or person which may possibly come from his
499
0:53:50 --> 0:53:55
participation in the experiment the duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of
500
0:53:55 --> 0:54:[privacy contact redaction]s upon each individual who initiates directs or engages in the experiment it is a
501
0:54:02 --> 0:54:10
personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity now that's
502
0:54:10 --> 0:54:[privacy contact redaction]e of these [privacy contact redaction]es that were enunciated second the experiment should
503
0:54:18 --> 0:54:24
be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society unprocurable by other methods or
504
0:54:24 --> 0:54:[privacy contact redaction]udy and not random and unnecessary in nature now i don't know whether we need to
505
0:54:29 --> 0:54:[privacy contact redaction] of the points do you want me to go through them all or do you all know them already
506
0:54:34 --> 0:54:42
quick answer no the essence of it you've got but just quickly give us the other eight just rather
507
0:54:43 --> 0:54:[privacy contact redaction] quickly then um the experiment should be so designed and based on the results of
508
0:54:48 --> 0:54:53
animal experimentation which again we know isn't happening at the moment this time around either
509
0:54:53 --> 0:55:07
and a knowledge of the experiment should be so conducted to so as to avoid all unnecessary
510
0:55:07 --> 0:55:14
physical and mental suffering and injury well that's been breached with the current set of
511
0:55:14 --> 0:55:20
live human experiments number five no experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori
512
0:55:20 --> 0:55:26
reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur well again we already have that
513
0:55:26 --> 0:55:32
evidence except perhaps in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects
514
0:55:33 --> 0:55:37
and that's the point that one of the you know that dr ivy was making he said well i've actually
515
0:55:37 --> 0:55:43
participated in my own experiments and therefore it's ethical and that's one of the parts of the
516
0:55:43 --> 0:55:49
newenberg code is that and the declaration of helsinki is you know just because a physician is
517
0:55:50 --> 0:55:55
participating participating doesn't mean that the overall experiment is therefore ethical
518
0:55:57 --> 0:56:02
the degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian
519
0:56:02 --> 0:56:08
importance of the problem to be resolved by the experiment seven proper preparation should be made
520
0:56:08 --> 0:56:13
and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote
521
0:56:13 --> 0:56:21
possibilities of injury disability or death now i take issue with that because you know the
522
0:56:21 --> 0:56:26
vaccine clinics are not providing individual clinical risk assessments for example and most
523
0:56:26 --> 0:56:33
of the time they're only people are only monitored for a few minutes this specifically says preparation
524
0:56:33 --> 0:56:39
should be made adequate facilities to protect the experimental subject in other words they should
525
0:56:39 --> 0:56:44
be taken through the full clinical risk assessment beforehand but they're not number eight the
526
0:56:44 --> 0:56:[privacy contact redaction]ed only by scientifically qualified persons and yet we have volunteers doing
527
0:56:51 --> 0:56:[privacy contact redaction] degree of skill and care should be required through all
528
0:56:56 --> 0:57:03
stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment number nine during the
529
0:57:03 --> 0:57:[privacy contact redaction] should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end
530
0:57:08 --> 0:57:13
if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to
531
0:57:13 --> 0:57:[privacy contact redaction]e the lockdowns the stay at home orders you know that's a live
532
0:57:20 --> 0:57:[privacy contact redaction] been able to say okay i've had enough i need to leave my home
533
0:57:25 --> 0:57:32
now you know i've reached my limits instead of killing themselves for example number 10 during
534
0:57:32 --> 0:57:[privacy contact redaction] in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment
535
0:57:37 --> 0:57:[privacy contact redaction]age if he has probable cause to believe in the exercise of good faith superior skill and
536
0:57:44 --> 0:57:50
careful judgment required of him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury
537
0:57:50 --> 0:57:58
disability or death to the experimental subject okay so when you hear all of those i think you'll
538
0:57:58 --> 0:58:01
all agree that they're all being broken at the moment with the live human experiments that are
539
0:58:01 --> 0:58:[privacy contact redaction]ed on us and when i say the live human experiments i mean the lockdowns i mean the
540
0:58:07 --> 0:58:[privacy contact redaction]ing i mean the the injections those are all live human experiments so it goes on
541
0:58:15 --> 0:58:[privacy contact redaction] been immunated our judicial concern of course is
542
0:58:21 --> 0:58:26
with those requirements which are purely legal so they don't want to go into you know the
543
0:58:28 --> 0:58:[privacy contact redaction]e because that's not for them to comment on but about whether or
544
0:58:34 --> 0:58:40
not consent is obtained that goes to the lawfulness of it so we find from the evidence and in the
545
0:58:40 --> 0:58:[privacy contact redaction] been proved these [privacy contact redaction]es were much more frequently honoured in
546
0:58:45 --> 0:58:50
their breach than in their observance in every single instance appearing in the records subjects
547
0:58:50 --> 0:58:57
were used who did not consent to the experiments in no case was the experimental subject at liberty
548
0:58:57 --> 0:59:[privacy contact redaction]aw from the experiment in many cases experiments were
549
0:59:02 --> 0:59:09
performed by unqualified persons same as today were conducted at random for no adequate scientific
550
0:59:09 --> 0:59:15
reason and under revolting physical conditions all of the experiments were conducted with
551
0:59:15 --> 0:59:20
unnecessary suffering and injury but very little if any precautions were taken to protect or
552
0:59:20 --> 0:59:[privacy contact redaction]s from the possibilities of injury disability or death in every one of the
553
0:59:26 --> 0:59:[privacy contact redaction]s experienced extreme pain or torture and in most of them they suffered
554
0:59:31 --> 0:59:36
permanent injury mutilation or death either as a direct result of the experiments or because of
555
0:59:36 --> 0:59:42
lack of adequate follow-up care again that's happening now the lack of adequate follow-up care
556
0:59:43 --> 0:59:48
obviously all of these experiments involving brutalities tortures disabling injury and death
557
0:59:48 --> 0:59:[privacy contact redaction] of international conventions the laws and customs
558
0:59:53 --> 0:59:[privacy contact redaction]es of criminal law as described as derived from the criminal laws of all
559
0:59:59 --> 1:00:06
civilized nations and control council law number [privacy contact redaction]ly human experiments under such conditions
560
1:00:06 --> 1:00:[privacy contact redaction]es of the law of nations as they result from the usages established
561
1:00:11 --> 1:00:[privacy contact redaction]e from the laws of humanity and from the dictates of public conscience okay so
562
1:00:18 --> 1:00:25
basically they are saying that well you heard what they said that they're condemning basically all
563
1:00:25 --> 1:00:30
of the experiments because the evidence proved and you heard how much evidence was actually presented
564
1:00:30 --> 1:00:39
to the trial over 139 days that that was the general case and therefore they then look at each
565
1:00:39 --> 1:00:49
what each defendant did and judge them in relation to that now can i just before i just go through
566
1:00:49 --> 1:00:[privacy contact redaction] carl brandt what i find fascinating is that when they look at the
567
1:01:00 --> 1:01:07
when they look at sorry page 88 page 89 oh yeah here we go so carl brandt was found guilty and
568
1:01:07 --> 1:01:14
was hanged now when you look at the experiments he conducted and how many people died and you
569
1:01:14 --> 1:01:19
compare it to the what we now think millions of people who have died from the current set of
570
1:01:19 --> 1:01:27
experiments these ones pale into comparison they make it look like child's play the defendant carl
571
1:01:27 --> 1:01:32
brandt is charged with special responsibility for and participation in freezing malaria loss
572
1:01:32 --> 1:01:37
gas sulfanolamide bone muscle and nerve regeneration and bone
573
1:01:41 --> 1:01:[privacy contact redaction]antation seawater epidemic jaundice sterilization and typhus experiments as alleged
574
1:01:46 --> 1:01:[privacy contact redaction]ment he's also charged in counts two and three with
575
1:01:50 --> 1:01:[privacy contact redaction]anning and carrying out of the euthanasia program
576
1:01:54 --> 1:01:59
of the german reich so on a killing spree some might say
577
1:02:02 --> 1:02:07
so when it goes through the experiments it says for example under the sulfamide experiments
578
1:02:08 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction] been experimented on and the subjects have been
579
1:02:14 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction]ed three died three died had he made the slightest investigation he could
580
1:02:21 --> 1:02:25
have ascertained that such experiments were being conducted on non-german nationals without their
581
1:02:25 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction] for their personal rights and that such experiments were planned for
582
1:02:31 --> 1:02:37
the future so again one of the reasons he was found guilty was because apparently he made no
583
1:02:37 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction]igation at all about whether or not these experiments were being conducted in accordance
584
1:02:42 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction]es that we've just read out the [privacy contact redaction]es it does not appear that at any
585
1:02:48 --> 1:02:[privacy contact redaction]eps to check medical experiments on human subjects
586
1:02:54 --> 1:03:00
occupying the position he did and being a physician of ability and experience the duty rested upon him
587
1:03:00 --> 1:03:[privacy contact redaction]igation concerning the medical experiments which he knew had been
588
1:03:05 --> 1:03:08
were being and doubtless would continue to be conducted in the camps
589
1:03:11 --> 1:03:16
the jaundice experiments eight prisoners have been condemned for the death of a man
590
1:03:16 --> 1:03:[privacy contact redaction] been condemned to death and they were experimented on lost gas
591
1:03:21 --> 1:03:[privacy contact redaction] gas experiments 200 campmates were experimented on 50 of them died
592
1:03:35 --> 1:03:43
euthanasia of course that's a much bigger one but here they talk about how the euthanasia was planned
593
1:03:43 --> 1:03:49
so it said a budget was adopted the method of determining candidates for euthanasia was established
594
1:03:49 --> 1:03:54
a patient's transport corporation was organized to convey the selected patients to the gassing
595
1:03:54 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]ionnaires were prepared which were forwarded to the heads of mental institutions
596
1:04:00 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]ished concerning each inmate and then returned to the ministry of
597
1:04:04 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]eted questionnaires were examined by so-called
598
1:04:09 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]ered their professional opinions there on return them to the appropriate
599
1:04:13 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]ers were issued for those patients who by this process
600
1:04:18 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]ed for extermination thereafter the condemned patients were gathered at collection
601
1:04:25 --> 1:04:29
points from whence they were transported to the euthanasia stations and killed by gassing
602
1:04:30 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]urbing about that is that there's evidence from the nhs that the do not
603
1:04:40 --> 1:04:[privacy contact redaction]s were put in place in covid that meant that any patient who turned
604
1:04:48 --> 1:04:54
up at hospital had an automatic do not attempt to resuscitate order placed on them whether they were
605
1:04:55 --> 1:05:04
aware of it or not and again the when it came to um you know who should be given a covid injection
606
1:05:04 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction]e who were elderly severely disabled learning difficulties and in
607
1:05:13 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction] the evidence shows that i think it was two-thirds more now i won't even quote the
608
1:05:20 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction]e in those categories have died at a far greater
609
1:05:25 --> 1:05:30
rate than the other members of the population it's looking suspiciously like we have another
610
1:05:30 --> 1:05:34
euthanasia program running in my view but i'd like to hear your viewpoints on that
611
1:05:37 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction] at the outset of the program non-german nationals
612
1:05:43 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction]ed for euthanasia and exterminated
613
1:05:48 --> 1:05:[privacy contact redaction]ually at the end says that he willingly took part in the euthanasia program
614
1:05:55 --> 1:06:02
because he considered that they were mercy killings and that he stands by that and again
615
1:06:02 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]and the thinking of the german medical profession at the time which they the
616
1:06:07 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]ify which was that they were incredibly good kind doctors and that most
617
1:06:14 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]ed for euthanasia were going to die a horrible death anyway especially the
618
1:06:20 --> 1:06:25
incurables and therefore it was essentially mercy killings now presumably one of the reasons why
619
1:06:25 --> 1:06:31
carl brandt ended up being hanged because he shows no remorse for the euthanasia program
620
1:06:32 --> 1:06:39
and so essentially it says here the we find that carl brandt was responsible for aiden and abetted
621
1:06:39 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]ed with plans and enterprises involving medical experiments
622
1:06:45 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]ed on non-german nationals against their consent and in other atrocities in the course of
623
1:06:50 --> 1:06:[privacy contact redaction]ers brutalities cruelties tortures and other inhumane acts were committed to the extent
624
1:06:56 --> 1:07:[privacy contact redaction]itute war crimes they constituted crimes against humanity
625
1:07:01 --> 1:07:07
the conclusion military tribunal one finds in a judge is the defendant carl brandt guilty under
626
1:07:07 --> 1:07:[privacy contact redaction]ment and as i say his the sentence was hanging so each what
627
1:07:15 --> 1:07:21
happens with is that with each of the defendants they go through essentially the same process you
628
1:07:21 --> 1:07:[privacy contact redaction]or how much authority did they have where were they taking
629
1:07:28 --> 1:07:[privacy contact redaction]ers from and what experiments were they involved in so the next defendant is dr hand loza
630
1:07:35 --> 1:07:42
who gets life imprisonment he's charged with special responsibility for high altitude freezing
631
1:07:42 --> 1:07:56
malaria loss gas etc um is the typhus experiments under counts two and three of the indictment
632
1:07:56 --> 1:08:01
hand loza is charged with special responsibility for and participation in typhus experiments
633
1:08:01 --> 1:08:[privacy contact redaction]ed in the bukenwald concentration camp which was supervised by a certain dr ding
634
1:08:07 --> 1:08:[privacy contact redaction]ion that in 1941 typhus was a potential menace to the german army and to
635
1:08:13 --> 1:08:18
many german civilians the use of inadequate typhus vaccine was therefore a matter of prime
636
1:08:18 --> 1:08:[privacy contact redaction]ribution of vaccines to the weimark was in the within the control of hand
637
1:08:23 --> 1:08:[privacy contact redaction]ions he was also interested in typhus vaccine production
638
1:08:30 --> 1:08:43
um so yeah it talks about how he gets the order to conduct these experiments um and two people died
639
1:08:45 --> 1:08:50
and again i'm raising that because i'm not minimizing the fact that two people died i'm
640
1:08:50 --> 1:08:[privacy contact redaction] that each of these defendants were being held responsible for
641
1:08:57 --> 1:09:03
these you know one two three eight deaths as well as the thousands of deaths but again in the context
642
1:09:03 --> 1:09:[privacy contact redaction]e are dying from these current experiments it just i just find it really quite
643
1:09:09 --> 1:09:[privacy contact redaction] said previous vaccines have been pulled after 50 deaths
644
1:09:15 --> 1:09:20
and yet we're watching hundreds of thousands unfold it's doing my head in um
645
1:09:22 --> 1:09:28
so hand loza in his superior medical position made no effort to investigate the situation of
646
1:09:28 --> 1:09:[privacy contact redaction]s or to exercise any proper degree of control over those conducting experiments
647
1:09:33 --> 1:09:39
within his field of authority and competence at the slightest inquiry being made the facts would
648
1:09:39 --> 1:09:43
have revealed that in vaccine experiments already conducted it be involved deaths had occurred
649
1:09:43 --> 1:09:[privacy contact redaction]ions by the lice um or but from infections by a variant virus
650
1:09:50 --> 1:09:[privacy contact redaction] been vaccinated with either the i can't pronounce
651
1:09:56 --> 1:10:03
names of the vaccines whose efficacy was being tested had this step been taken and had hand loza
652
1:10:03 --> 1:10:08
exercised his authority later deaths would have been prevented in these particular experiments
653
1:10:08 --> 1:10:13
and these deaths not only occur with german nationals but also among non-german nationals
654
1:10:13 --> 1:10:19
now again going back to the current situation you know in the uk it's the ccg the care commissioning
655
1:10:19 --> 1:10:26
groups which are which comprise the local gps in an area who have commissioned
656
1:10:27 --> 1:10:33
this vaccine to be rolled out and they're being rolled out in clinics typically not at the gp
657
1:10:34 --> 1:10:39
surgeries they're being rolled out in clinics in places like schools and you know churches and
658
1:10:40 --> 1:10:[privacy contact redaction]s shopping centers and they're being run by volunteers we don't even know how many
659
1:10:47 --> 1:10:[privacy contact redaction]ually there on site let alone going through individual risk assessments
660
1:10:55 --> 1:11:02
and it's exactly the same criticism that the tribunal makes of hand loza and frant they knew
661
1:11:02 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]e were in these vaccination programs usually without their consent they knew that
662
1:11:07 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]e were being maimed and injured and yet they just let the vaccination programs continue
663
1:11:13 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]ly the same as happening today so
664
1:11:26 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]ion with hand lozers responsibility for unlawful experiments
665
1:11:31 --> 1:11:35
on human beings the evidence is conclusive that with knowledge of the frequent use of non-german
666
1:11:35 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]s he failed to exercise any proper degree of control over
667
1:11:40 --> 1:11:[privacy contact redaction]icated in medical experiments coming within his officials
668
1:11:46 --> 1:11:52
official sphere of competence this was a duty which clearly devolved upon him by virtue of
669
1:11:52 --> 1:11:57
his official position had he exercised his responsibility great numbers of non-german
670
1:11:57 --> 1:12:[privacy contact redaction]er to the extent that the crimes committed by or under
671
1:12:01 --> 1:12:07
his authority were not war crimes they were crimes against his humanity conclusion military tribunal
672
1:12:07 --> 1:12:12
one finds in a judge's the defendant's secret hands over guilty under counts two and three of
673
1:12:12 --> 1:12:[privacy contact redaction]ment so that's you know life imprisonment and hanging for non-consensual experiments where
674
1:12:23 --> 1:12:31
basically they didn't bother to exercise any supervisory power over it authority over it and
675
1:12:31 --> 1:12:[privacy contact redaction] seen that the experiments were unethical were causing harm and
676
1:12:36 --> 1:12:[privacy contact redaction]d lives and they failed to do so and so they were found guilty of the result
677
1:12:43 --> 1:12:[privacy contact redaction]ock is the next one who's brought to trial now he's not he's found not guilty and the reason
678
1:12:49 --> 1:12:54
for that is that the prosecution does not contend that rostock personally participated
679
1:12:54 --> 1:12:59
in criminal experiments it vigorously argues however that with full knowledge that concentration
680
1:12:59 --> 1:13:04
camp inmates were being experimented upon he continued to function upon research assignments
681
1:13:04 --> 1:13:[privacy contact redaction]igations the results of which were probably further experiments upon
682
1:13:10 --> 1:13:16
human beings the prosecution then argues that his knowledge concerning these matters considered
683
1:13:16 --> 1:13:21
together with the position of authority which he occupied in connection with scientific research
684
1:13:22 --> 1:13:[privacy contact redaction] that he failed to exercise his authority in attempt to stop or check criminal
685
1:13:27 --> 1:13:33
experiments renders him guilty as charged so he wasn't personally taking part in the experimentation
686
1:13:33 --> 1:13:38
but because of his scientific research he must have known that harm would have happened and he
687
1:13:38 --> 1:13:44
didn't do anything about it so that was the allegations made against him doubtless rostock
688
1:13:44 --> 1:13:49
knew that experiments on concentration camp inmates were being conducted he presided over
689
1:13:49 --> 1:13:55
the meeting of surgeons held in may [privacy contact redaction]atements that experimental subjects had
690
1:13:55 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction]ed doubtless he knew that the experiments were dangerous and that further
691
1:14:00 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction]ed however it does not appear that either rostock rostock or any
692
1:14:05 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction]ed the work done on any assignment concerning criminal experiments
693
1:14:11 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction] does not show that the position held by rostock vested in him any authority whatsoever
694
1:14:17 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction]ated no experiments were conducted by any person or organization
695
1:14:23 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction]ock's control or direction so that's the difference
696
1:14:29 --> 1:14:[privacy contact redaction] known about it and yes his work could have made him realize that um
697
1:14:36 --> 1:14:42
you know criminal harm was going to occur but because he wasn't involved directly
698
1:14:43 --> 1:14:48
they found him not guilty now i can't comment on that as to whether or not that was a fair
699
1:14:48 --> 1:14:55
decision but that's where they drew the line and as i say there are all of the other defendants
700
1:14:55 --> 1:15:[privacy contact redaction]ly the same kind of process what experiments were they involved in
701
1:15:00 --> 1:15:[privacy contact redaction] to put an end to them and therefore you know what duty was imposed
702
1:15:06 --> 1:15:17
on them to do precisely that and did they fail in that duty overall seven doctors were sentenced to
703
1:15:17 --> 1:15:[privacy contact redaction]ors to life imprisonment one doctor for 10 to 10 years one to 15 years and
704
1:15:25 --> 1:15:[privacy contact redaction]ors for 20 years so [privacy contact redaction] were found not guilty
705
1:15:33 --> 1:15:43
so that is essentially in a nutshell as much as i could um you know the medical cases
706
1:15:44 --> 1:15:[privacy contact redaction]rikes me about it all is firstly the fact that you know all of the doctors
707
1:15:52 --> 1:15:57
pleaded not guilty because their view was either these experiments were necessary
708
1:15:59 --> 1:16:06
you know as part of war or it was the um you know they were just following orders and they were
709
1:16:06 --> 1:16:[privacy contact redaction] point necessity um the other point they make is that
710
1:16:14 --> 1:16:22
you know they were they had a blind faith essentially um so one of them is saying that
711
1:16:22 --> 1:16:29
you know everyone loved and adored hitler so much and believed that everything that he was doing was
712
1:16:29 --> 1:16:[privacy contact redaction]e so when they when hitler ordered you know mass vaccination experiments he
713
1:16:36 --> 1:16:43
thought it was for the greater good and never even questioned it um which again has bells ringing
714
1:16:43 --> 1:16:[privacy contact redaction]e are saying similar things today we trusted vaccines we
715
1:16:47 --> 1:16:[privacy contact redaction]ed you know being told that these were safe and effective um a similar
716
1:16:54 --> 1:17:[privacy contact redaction] being uh expressed today as being expressed in those days as well um but
717
1:17:02 --> 1:17:08
ultimately as you can see there was a code of medical ethics that these perpetrators weren't
718
1:17:08 --> 1:17:17
upholding and again the same today the difference between then and now is that we've had 70 years
719
1:17:18 --> 1:17:28
worth of more laws and ethics to clarify some of the um issues that people were contesting in those
720
1:17:28 --> 1:17:34
days you know such as can you take a prisoner um and experiment on them on the basis that they're
721
1:17:34 --> 1:17:[privacy contact redaction] um and consent issues about implied consent you know as someone's rolled
722
1:17:41 --> 1:17:45
up their sleeve does it mean they're actually consenting even if they can't speak english and
723
1:17:45 --> 1:17:51
say yes so all of those issues which some of the defendants were relying on as an excuse have now
724
1:17:51 --> 1:17:59
been ironed out in um subsequent laws and medical ethics so whilst i find reading through this shocking
725
1:17:59 --> 1:18:[privacy contact redaction]ors at the time who were claiming what they were doing was ethical it's
726
1:18:04 --> 1:18:11
even more shocking to me now that not only if we have those judgments which no doctor i've
727
1:18:11 --> 1:18:17
spoken to has read no lawyer that i've spoken to has read so what was the point of it all if
728
1:18:17 --> 1:18:[privacy contact redaction]ually reads it but as i keep saying in addition to that we've got copious more laws and
729
1:18:22 --> 1:18:[privacy contact redaction]ephen said and i'll wrap up now why and how are we still here how are we still
730
1:18:31 --> 1:18:36
going through the same thing where medics from around the world are conducting live human
731
1:18:36 --> 1:18:43
experiments as i say the um and it's all the same stuff so as a lawyer i find it very very
732
1:18:43 --> 1:18:[privacy contact redaction]rating because when i read all of this it seems to me to be very clear that what's happening
733
1:18:49 --> 1:18:56
today is a massive breach of law and medical ethics and yet here we are so i hope you found
734
1:18:56 --> 1:19:02
that helpful um there's so much more that's in here that you would find fascinating to read i'm sure
735
1:19:03 --> 1:19:09
um if you're that way inclined um but please do ask me questions very good very good anna
736
1:19:10 --> 1:19:[privacy contact redaction]ause everybody thank you anna we'll come to the questions in a moment
737
1:19:15 --> 1:19:[privacy contact redaction]e of announcements before we get to stephen and q and a firstly
738
1:19:22 --> 1:19:[privacy contact redaction]essed us is before a kangaroo court of medical board in the u.s
739
1:19:30 --> 1:19:39
and daniel craft and others are watching that so be aware of that um and it is quite interesting
740
1:19:39 --> 1:19:[privacy contact redaction]n't got time to go to that but it's on at the moment secondly
741
1:19:44 --> 1:19:51
dan dan craft has come up with an idea that stephen and i support of helping shimon yanovitz get a
742
1:19:51 --> 1:19:59
dark field microscope and so and so to enable shimon to keep doing his work the question is
743
1:20:00 --> 1:20:[privacy contact redaction] could we get a dark field microscope even a used microscope to shimon in israel so
744
1:20:10 --> 1:20:16
so it's not just a question of you know throwing money at it there might be used microscopes
745
1:20:16 --> 1:20:[privacy contact redaction] that someone knows so dan will put his i'll put his contact details into
746
1:20:25 --> 1:20:31
the chat but shimon's work is so important he is restricted with resources so dan came up with
747
1:20:31 --> 1:20:[privacy contact redaction]ephen and i consider an excellent idea so let's see how we can help shimon get that
748
1:20:41 --> 1:20:49
tool get that important resource so meryl nass helping shimon i'll put his daniel in there
749
1:20:49 --> 1:20:[privacy contact redaction] thing that's interesting before stephen asks his question is that in queensland
750
1:20:58 --> 1:21:[privacy contact redaction]ralia a law is being brought in and the way that the law is structured in australia
751
1:21:05 --> 1:21:[privacy contact redaction]ate for a change in the national health law and then other states
752
1:21:12 --> 1:21:21
copy that so there's a somewhat uniform law amongst the states now this law is now saying
753
1:21:21 --> 1:21:28
precisely what you've been dealing with it says that a doctor who gives advice contrary to the
754
1:21:28 --> 1:21:35
government position is breaching the law and so here's the question we won't i just bring it to
755
1:21:35 --> 1:21:41
everyone's attention that right now a law is being brought in that would make doctors ignore
756
1:21:41 --> 1:21:[privacy contact redaction]ers now that's also what's happening in california
757
1:21:49 --> 1:21:54
and so we'll have a we'll have a conversation let's do the questions first but be aware that
758
1:21:54 --> 1:22:01
ana precisely what you're saying hey we're back here again where the state says you doctors
759
1:22:01 --> 1:22:[privacy contact redaction]n't do this and you start to go what did nuremberg say the doctors just slavishly take
760
1:22:07 --> 1:22:15
orders from government that's the point about medical ethics and morals and ana you talked
761
1:22:15 --> 1:22:21
about morals and ethics it's happening now i'll bring it to your attention we'll have a discussion
762
1:22:21 --> 1:22:27
a little bit later and there was one other thing that question was asked ana you mentioned a report
763
1:22:28 --> 1:22:36
there's there's comments in the chat about a euthanasia report or a euthanasia exercise that
764
1:22:36 --> 1:22:[privacy contact redaction]e said what's the name what's the name that ana mentioned you mentioned
765
1:22:40 --> 1:22:46
some name of some report if you can't think of it doesn't matter but if you can someone or if you
766
1:22:46 --> 1:22:52
can't specifically remember don't worry someone will bring it to your attention can you remember
767
1:22:52 --> 1:23:01
me the yes the euthanasia report no i don't know about ana what did ana mention can you remember
768
1:23:01 --> 1:23:11
um i i know um ana mentioned there the um the government's dnr um yeah the cqc i put in the
769
1:23:11 --> 1:23:18
in the chat there that the care quality commission in the uk actually provided a report in 2021
770
1:23:19 --> 1:23:25
wear it and i quote verbatim um there were potentially avoidable deaths as a result of
771
1:23:25 --> 1:23:[privacy contact redaction]ions but nothing has happened as a result of their own watchdog
772
1:23:31 --> 1:23:[privacy contact redaction]ions or part of a two-part question i got for ana
773
1:23:38 --> 1:23:[privacy contact redaction]ing the rule of law ana as we've discussed previously okay great
774
1:23:45 --> 1:23:49
all right thank you peter for that insight everybody that was the report that ana
775
1:23:49 --> 1:23:54
mentioned so in tradition here everybody particularly for new for new participants
776
1:23:54 --> 1:24:01
steven is the founder of the group he and ana ana well knows this steven gets the first
777
1:24:02 --> 1:24:[privacy contact redaction]ions and to explore ideas that have occurred
778
1:24:07 --> 1:24:[privacy contact redaction]even over to you yeah thank you i know that was great um
779
1:24:13 --> 1:24:[privacy contact redaction]e on the in the group to uh to have a look at what ana has been
780
1:24:22 --> 1:24:[privacy contact redaction]and and that a lot of people won't be comfortable
781
1:24:29 --> 1:24:[privacy contact redaction]en to ana but anyway um i agree with you that
782
1:24:35 --> 1:24:41
what's happening now is actually worse than what happened in the second world war in terms of
783
1:24:41 --> 1:24:52
numbers but also as you pointed out you know we had uh people who thought they had they were
784
1:24:52 --> 1:24:59
widely read you know and uh so they should have known better than in the 40s or the 30s late 30s
785
1:24:59 --> 1:25:07
i think it was um and um yes it's going on now and one of the things i thought of when you were
786
1:25:07 --> 1:25:11
talking um i agree with you about the do not resuscitate programs that that could be an
787
1:25:11 --> 1:25:19
updated t4 program and maybe they've used it as a blueprint i don't know but uh everyone's
788
1:25:20 --> 1:25:26
all the time it's been the over 70s over 80s i think it was initially who are most at risk and
789
1:25:26 --> 1:25:[privacy contact redaction]e think they're very virtuous because they've said oh don't over
790
1:25:34 --> 1:25:40
don't uh inject anyone under [privacy contact redaction] to be over 50 to qualify for a
791
1:25:40 --> 1:25:47
vaccination in denmark i think that's right but i've thought all the time that their claim that
792
1:25:47 --> 1:25:[privacy contact redaction] at risk they're most at risk of every damn disease the elderly so why would you
793
1:25:55 --> 1:26:01
create special rules in in this you know covid 19 alleged disease so um
794
1:26:01 --> 1:26:09
um and also if you've given the vaccination a dangerous injection then they're the very
795
1:26:09 --> 1:26:[privacy contact redaction]e who'll be tipped over the edge into death so you know it's like i've i haven't accepted the
796
1:26:18 --> 1:26:[privacy contact redaction]e first you know it was made out to be a kind thing to do
797
1:26:25 --> 1:26:33
precisely as i think carl brandt was arguing about euthanasia you know they were doing they
798
1:26:33 --> 1:26:[privacy contact redaction]e when actually they were doing exactly the opposite and therein
799
1:26:39 --> 1:26:45
lies the true evil of what's happened i just wondered what you think about that yeah well i
800
1:26:45 --> 1:26:50
think that's the whole point isn't it that you know you can you can describe as a mercy killing
801
1:26:50 --> 1:26:[privacy contact redaction]ually is an intentional brutal killing depending on
802
1:26:55 --> 1:27:01
in it and they've done it now in 20 since 2020 and they're doing it still
803
1:27:03 --> 1:27:10
including denmark there's you know the supposed virtuous country who've done the right thing no
804
1:27:10 --> 1:27:[privacy contact redaction]n't done the right thing they're still killing the old people yeah yeah and in fact
805
1:27:14 --> 1:27:22
there's going on from the nuremberg trials in the 40s they brought some nurses to trial in the 60s
806
1:27:24 --> 1:27:[privacy contact redaction]ually confesses to have killed over [privacy contact redaction]en and these are typically
807
1:27:32 --> 1:27:[privacy contact redaction]en in you know mentally disabled children i think they were in polish asylums but it's
808
1:27:38 --> 1:27:[privacy contact redaction]en to each of these nurses give their evidence and they're all saying
809
1:27:43 --> 1:27:48
essentially the same thing or we thought we were doing a kind thing you know some of these children
810
1:27:48 --> 1:27:51
had nobody to look after them if they went out into the community they'd have ended up on the
811
1:27:51 --> 1:27:58
streets and you see how they're convincing themselves that you know these cold-blooded
812
1:27:58 --> 1:28:[privacy contact redaction]s of kindness it's yeah disturbing and and the other thing that strikes me prior to
813
1:28:09 --> 1:28:15
this so-called pandemic which was the pandemic nobody trusted or very few people trusted the
814
1:28:15 --> 1:28:20
government and all of a sudden they're trusting the government quoting the government on everything
815
1:28:20 --> 1:28:29
blindly crazy they didn't even like the government in this country and they didn't like um well they've
816
1:28:29 --> 1:28:[privacy contact redaction]er to the present um but anyway um so when you're reading through
817
1:28:37 --> 1:28:[privacy contact redaction] shocking thing to you i think the normalization of how
818
1:28:46 --> 1:28:52
brutal these experiments were the narrative that these doctors were running in their head
819
1:28:53 --> 1:28:[privacy contact redaction]ently throughout which was you know we're good physicians we're there for the love of
820
1:28:58 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction] found ourselves in a difficult position and um uh don't we don't feel guilty
821
1:29:05 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction]ify it to ourselves and in fact there's a certain amount of um
822
1:29:11 --> 1:29:15
i think i'd call it whining really of you know being misunderstood
823
1:29:17 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction] but then on the other hand i do try and i try and give credence to what they say
824
1:29:24 --> 1:29:32
which is you you can't sit there and judge us unless you are actually in that regime
825
1:29:32 --> 1:29:38
experiencing it for yourself um and i think you know there must be a certain truth in that
826
1:29:38 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction]ors who said that you know they tried to raise objections and
827
1:29:43 --> 1:29:49
they weren't comfortable with it but you know they there was incredibly little that they
828
1:29:49 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction]ically and again i don't know how true that is because
829
1:29:54 --> 1:29:[privacy contact redaction]e are using the same excuse today oh you know in the nhs oh it's impossible to say no
830
1:29:59 --> 1:30:05
well is it really what's gonna happen someone got a gun to your head i mean in those days
831
1:30:05 --> 1:30:[privacy contact redaction]e could get shot on the spot by you know the ss and etc but that's not happening now
832
1:30:13 --> 1:30:18
so i don't understand how people can be saying things like you know well we were forced to do
833
1:30:18 --> 1:30:24
the vaccination program we didn't have the choice well didn't you dr white walked away
834
1:30:24 --> 1:30:[privacy contact redaction] but you know they haven't been murdered so yeah i don't know how
835
1:30:32 --> 1:30:37
much of of that was the same then where they were saying that they felt they had to comply but how
836
1:30:37 --> 1:30:[privacy contact redaction] i don't know and as one british doctor said to me um the last words he
837
1:30:43 --> 1:30:48
ever said to me because i asked him about what he was going to do i won't mention the name um but i
838
1:30:49 --> 1:31:[privacy contact redaction]ed him before he was involved in a huge fight and he said that he had he felt he had to
839
1:31:00 --> 1:31:05
do it as a gp because they were queuing they were queuing in the streets for the injections for
840
1:31:05 --> 1:31:06
vaccinations
841
1:31:09 --> 1:31:[privacy contact redaction]or since
842
1:31:14 --> 1:31:21
crazy uh i've done a number of doctors have drifted away as well i was involved with
843
1:31:21 --> 1:31:27
um you know in the junior song thing the junior you know we were supporting during the song
844
1:31:28 --> 1:31:[privacy contact redaction]ors for song it was called um i just wanted to ask you about the uh the um people
845
1:31:36 --> 1:31:[privacy contact redaction]ed for death sentences rather than life imprisonment
846
1:31:42 --> 1:31:[privacy contact redaction]e who were murdered sorry um hanged were ss is that right
847
1:31:51 --> 1:31:58
uh i'd have to check that point to be honest i haven't specifically done that
848
1:31:58 --> 1:32:02
exercise to work out whether it was because they were ss
849
1:32:02 --> 1:32:07
yes in the sentences it doesn't actually um
850
1:32:10 --> 1:32:17
yeah i don't know i i read that somewhere yeah hang on hanging um membership of an organization
851
1:32:17 --> 1:32:24
yeah he was yep membership of an organization membership of an organization yeah actually
852
1:32:24 --> 1:32:29
that is true all of those were who were hanged were membership yeah membership of the criminal
853
1:32:29 --> 1:32:[privacy contact redaction]ed for life imprisonment were not members of the ss
854
1:32:36 --> 1:32:[privacy contact redaction]s there were no ss members who would try to who got away with that but i'm
855
1:32:43 --> 1:32:47
not absolutely sure about that no that seems to be right actually looking at it from that perspective
856
1:32:51 --> 1:32:55
um oh no no no carl gentson what had membership of an organization declared criminal
857
1:32:56 --> 1:33:01
and he got life imprisonment um
858
1:33:03 --> 1:33:09
so and i wondered how did carl brandt come to prominence as the main defense with defense
859
1:33:10 --> 1:33:16
defendant sorry how well how did carl brandt come to prominence as the main defendant
860
1:33:17 --> 1:33:24
what what position did he occupy in hitler's germany um well i should give it give it to how
861
1:33:24 --> 1:33:[privacy contact redaction]and it essentially he um ends up being given more and
862
1:33:31 --> 1:33:37
more and more authority by um hitler as time goes on so that they essentially say that he
863
1:33:37 --> 1:33:44
was only answering um to basically hitler in charge of everything but let me just quickly
864
1:33:44 --> 1:33:48
have a look at that hold on give me a moment talk amongst yourselves
865
1:33:54 --> 1:34:02
it's okay and i'll ask another time so because it's a very good question it's very important
866
1:34:02 --> 1:34:08
because it is um it's just that sorry it's here we go um
867
1:34:11 --> 1:34:18
yeah so basically they say that um carl brandt joined the national he became a member
868
1:34:18 --> 1:34:20
he's promoted to the grade
869
1:34:23 --> 1:34:24
major general
870
1:34:27 --> 1:34:32
right hang on sorry during the month of april carl brandt was promoted to the rank of uber straff
871
1:34:32 --> 1:34:38
and barnifura sorry for any germans out there that was probably horribly pronounced in the alimine
872
1:34:38 --> 1:34:45
ss in 1940 he was transferred to the waffen um he received a grade equivalent to that of major
873
1:34:45 --> 1:34:52
general in the waffen in 1943 and in 1944 was promoted to the grade of lieutenant general
874
1:34:53 --> 1:34:[privacy contact redaction]ate been relieved as hitler's escort physician he was again
875
1:34:57 --> 1:35:04
appointed as such in the fall of 1944 in 19 general is a three-star general isn't it major
876
1:35:04 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction]ed with high authority over the medical services military and
877
1:35:09 --> 1:35:15
civilian in german paragraphs three and four of this decree referring to carl brandt read as
878
1:35:15 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction] carl brandt subordinate only to me personally and receiving
879
1:35:21 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction]ly from me to carry out special tasks and negotiations to readjust the
880
1:35:27 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction]ors hospitals medical supplies etc between the military and the
881
1:35:32 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction]ors of their health and medical services so basically he's um you know broad
882
1:35:40 --> 1:35:[privacy contact redaction]er from hitler is essentially the way that it's um so essentially what he was with
883
1:35:46 --> 1:35:56
the surgeon general yeah uh i don't know whether they use that exact term the plane um hang on
884
1:35:57 --> 1:36:[privacy contact redaction]er on 1943 signed by hitler's his authority was strengthened the
885
1:36:02 --> 1:36:[privacy contact redaction]enary for the medical and health services general commissioner professor
886
1:36:08 --> 1:36:[privacy contact redaction]inating and directing the problems and activities of the
887
1:36:14 --> 1:36:26
entire medical and health services yeah it doesn't one last question and law number 10 yeah seems
888
1:36:26 --> 1:36:33
to be absolutely crucial um to us in the future because it's going to be something like that that
889
1:36:33 --> 1:36:40
brings all the crimes which we've seen in the last two and a half years into the jurisdiction of
890
1:36:41 --> 1:36:[privacy contact redaction] so what's your view well of course we now have in theory i i suppose it's in practice
891
1:36:50 --> 1:36:[privacy contact redaction] because of course what happened after nuremberg
892
1:36:54 --> 1:36:58
was that there were other military tribunals that were established for various other
893
1:36:58 --> 1:37:04
heinous crimes that happened since the war but eventually there was a demand for an international
894
1:37:04 --> 1:37:[privacy contact redaction]ablished to hear such crimes and i think it was established
895
1:37:10 --> 1:37:19
was it [privacy contact redaction]atute which governs the international criminal
896
1:37:19 --> 1:37:27
court is now the um the law that sets out the crimes that uh fall within the jurisdiction of
897
1:37:27 --> 1:37:34
the icc so crimes you know article six is um genocide i think article seven is crimes against
898
1:37:34 --> 1:37:43
humanity and article eight is uh war crimes by warfare etc so that's kind of taken the um you
899
1:37:43 --> 1:37:49
know the law council is peculiar to that time we've got updated laws now but the problem is
900
1:37:50 --> 1:37:[privacy contact redaction]e is enshrined in uk law into the in the international criminal
901
1:37:57 --> 1:38:[privacy contact redaction] i think it's 2001 the harsh reality is that those crimes may fall within the jurisdiction
902
1:38:04 --> 1:38:10
of the icc but how do you get the icc to actually engage and hear any of them you know we've made
903
1:38:10 --> 1:38:[privacy contact redaction]ications to the icc but one in april 2021 and the other one in december 2021 and
904
1:38:18 --> 1:38:23
nothing's happened and those of other countries have also written and asked them to intervene
905
1:38:24 --> 1:38:29
so then where do you bring those crimes into what forum but anna that's precisely why there'll be
906
1:38:29 --> 1:38:34
military tribunals what you're thinking in the long run well yeah but then you see under the
907
1:38:34 --> 1:38:[privacy contact redaction] um the what it says is that certain crimes can be brought within the
908
1:38:40 --> 1:38:[privacy contact redaction]s marshals certain crimes have to be brought within the jurisdiction
909
1:38:44 --> 1:38:[privacy contact redaction]s and some you get a choice as to whether it's courts marshal or not
910
1:38:49 --> 1:38:55
but with the more serious crimes um you know that has to be instigated by the director of
911
1:38:55 --> 1:39:01
public prosecutions unless it's a court of military tribunal and to be honest i've looked into it and
912
1:39:01 --> 1:39:06
it doesn't seem to me to be that clear as to who has the authority to determine this
913
1:39:07 --> 1:39:14
and the reality of the icc is that they've brought very few prosecutions yeah exactly because uh
914
1:39:14 --> 1:39:21
was the un behind the icc they were connected i think well and you know evidence is that the
915
1:39:21 --> 1:39:[privacy contact redaction] been brought off i don't want to make that allegation firmly but
916
1:39:26 --> 1:39:33
there's plenty of evidence to show that you know like all of these um organizations they've been
917
1:39:33 --> 1:39:39
captured sure and look at milosevic you know that's the look what happened there
918
1:39:41 --> 1:39:[privacy contact redaction]ually he was in their care or should have been and it should have been
919
1:39:47 --> 1:39:[privacy contact redaction] um thank you on it all right all right now one other i've got a shocking
920
1:39:56 --> 1:40:05
announcement for you everybody a truly shocking announcement we're having a another meeting
921
1:40:05 --> 1:40:14
tomorrow night this is a shock this is the first time in human history that steven frost medical
922
1:40:14 --> 1:40:[privacy contact redaction]ors for covert ethics is having three meetings in a week so tomorrow same time as tonight or this
923
1:40:23 --> 1:40:[privacy contact redaction]ralia in the morning uh is addressing us and steven considered
924
1:40:30 --> 1:40:38
this to be so important that we're putting on another event so steven you watched this
925
1:40:38 --> 1:40:45
presentation and you urge everybody to come and watch and look at uh sukker its presentation
926
1:40:45 --> 1:40:[privacy contact redaction] yeah he made a speech in athens to the greek people it was absolutely brilliant so i
927
1:40:51 --> 1:40:58
watched the whole of it yeah um so it's going to make the same speech to us tomorrow all right
928
1:40:58 --> 1:41:04
everybody put it in your diaries the invitations will be coming in the next in the same time uh
929
1:41:04 --> 1:41:18
it'll be 8 p.m uk time 9 p.m central european time 6 a.m melbourne time midday la time 3 p.m
930
1:41:18 --> 1:41:[privacy contact redaction] out yourselves everybody so and bornio will also be 3 a.m again
931
1:41:25 --> 1:41:30
for poor leo all right so that's on your agenda everybody's coming maryl ness the recording will
932
1:41:30 --> 1:41:[privacy contact redaction]en's health defense dan craft has put his connections in there for shimla
933
1:41:35 --> 1:41:40
let's get to questions we've got [privacy contact redaction]ions and are you okay for 45 minutes
934
1:41:40 --> 1:41:47
yep wonderful okay hyko you're up first oh sorry before hyko does dan is there anything you want
935
1:41:48 --> 1:41:52
about how we want to help shimon by any chance are you okay
936
1:41:57 --> 1:42:06
he looks okay good all right hyko thank you and i learned a lot again but uh is it possible to get
937
1:42:06 --> 1:42:[privacy contact redaction]erilization testing uh with vaccines uh for my new status somehow
938
1:42:14 --> 1:42:24
okay next it's breaking up a bit i couldn't hear the start of i have three questions the first is
939
1:42:24 --> 1:42:34
it possible to find out or get it in writing uh the part about the civilization experiments
940
1:42:36 --> 1:42:[privacy contact redaction]erilization experiment ana the civilization experiment sterilization
941
1:42:45 --> 1:42:47
sorry that's what i was struggling to understand
942
1:42:50 --> 1:42:56
what the the the bit of the judgment where it deals with the sterilization experiments
943
1:42:56 --> 1:43:01
yeah is it possible to to learn more find out more about that somewhere
944
1:43:02 --> 1:43:10
what the details of the experiments yeah i mean um i could send you the extracts that deal with it
945
1:43:10 --> 1:43:[privacy contact redaction] been studying very much in german
946
1:43:18 --> 1:43:26
it's german schools for 13 years and also read this reprint in the norwegian doctors association
947
1:43:26 --> 1:43:[privacy contact redaction]berg codexes but i couldn't find how they found out which of them of these
948
1:43:34 --> 1:43:[privacy contact redaction]ed with
949
1:43:42 --> 1:43:[privacy contact redaction] paperclip did you find anything about that
950
1:43:47 --> 1:43:[privacy contact redaction] that so many of these german doctors were ending up um brought over to america
951
1:43:54 --> 1:44:01
only seven no a number of them i don't know how many but i yes no i do know about operation paperclip
952
1:44:01 --> 1:44:07
and that they were well they do it mentions it to a certain extent in here about the fact that um
953
1:44:08 --> 1:44:14
you know a lot of the work that was done by the germans was appropriated by the americans
954
1:44:15 --> 1:44:20
um you know a lot of the research that was actually done during the war was then appropriated by the
955
1:44:20 --> 1:44:27
americans as handy get the germans to do it blame the germans for it and then use use it for your
956
1:44:27 --> 1:44:[privacy contact redaction] one i i hope mark sex and others other were more lucky
957
1:44:36 --> 1:44:42
as lucky as i was because i tried something like the same thing like in bristol in january
958
1:44:43 --> 1:44:50
and uh what i wanted to uh find out on the batch numbers which of the vaccines in the vaccine
959
1:44:50 --> 1:44:56
center were dangerous and delivered them to the police but uh the two got arrested
960
1:44:58 --> 1:45:04
but after five hours we were free again and they said well you get a very hard
961
1:45:05 --> 1:45:12
court case and a big fine and in june i got the letter uh case dismissed
962
1:45:12 --> 1:45:12
oh
963
1:45:14 --> 1:45:20
did you hear some how's mark and the others are doing now they were arrested right well yes i got
964
1:45:20 --> 1:45:25
an update from one of the other military people who phoned me at about six this evening to say
965
1:45:25 --> 1:45:33
that mark um one of the other vets called mickey p and um see steve have all been arrested for
966
1:45:33 --> 1:45:41
aggravated trespass but the view is that they may have done that on purpose because having having
967
1:45:42 --> 1:45:47
been sick of trying to deal with the police just you know walking away they think well get ourselves
968
1:45:47 --> 1:45:[privacy contact redaction]ed we're actually in the police station then it's not a lot like we can chew their ears off so
969
1:45:54 --> 1:45:59
i'm going to be interested to see where it goes but you know the view the view our end is that we
970
1:45:59 --> 1:46:[privacy contact redaction] need to keep going to these clinics day in day out day in day out um until the police give in
971
1:46:07 --> 1:46:12
because they're just stonewalling but the stonewalling is just getting more and more
972
1:46:12 --> 1:46:19
ridiculous given the increasing evidence of the deaths and the harms exactly but it's very good
973
1:46:19 --> 1:46:[privacy contact redaction] in the center that led to uh uh of course papers writing about
974
1:46:30 --> 1:46:37
and uh then the government was giving more money to extra security
975
1:46:39 --> 1:46:46
bodies which had tents and watching this thing but now after one week later the center was closed
976
1:46:47 --> 1:46:55
and then and the security police was uh saying we have to be careful for these right right wing
977
1:46:56 --> 1:47:03
uh anti-busters they're getting more and more dangerous but it's going the right way
978
1:47:04 --> 1:47:13
and now uh a lot of things are happening in connection with the uh the law of land
979
1:47:15 --> 1:47:23
and uh yeah so uh so it's really going the right way thank you very much well thank you haiko as
980
1:47:23 --> 1:47:29
well for keep on trying to close it down in norway it's music to my ears but you know again
981
1:47:29 --> 1:47:35
these this trial makes it very clear doesn't it that the people who should be shutting it down
982
1:47:35 --> 1:47:[privacy contact redaction]ually involved in the trial that is themselves you know in this in the
983
1:47:39 --> 1:47:48
case in the uk it should be the ccgs who should be shutting it down well i think the medical defense
984
1:47:49 --> 1:47:[privacy contact redaction]ion society and the general medical council should be speaking out
985
1:47:54 --> 1:48:05
about the what we've been talking about tonight all right thank you haiko well done um peter for those
986
1:48:05 --> 1:48:12
who don't know is is amongst other things a lawyer and what else are you peter just tell us
987
1:48:12 --> 1:48:14
uh
988
1:48:15 --> 1:48:[privacy contact redaction]rical engineer then police officer police sergeant including cbrn chemical
989
1:48:22 --> 1:48:29
biological radiological nuclear and a few other things and then i did my law degree in my latter
990
1:48:29 --> 1:48:[privacy contact redaction]s and powers of attorney at the moment but uh yeah like
991
1:48:36 --> 1:48:[privacy contact redaction] trying to do bits like we all are and ana just thank you so much for all you do and
992
1:48:42 --> 1:48:[privacy contact redaction] you know lifting that torch and shining brightly that's all we i think we can do at the
993
1:48:48 --> 1:48:[privacy contact redaction]ions or two points um actually revolve around that so we've discussed
994
1:48:54 --> 1:49:00
the new remberg trial tonight and i think we all agree that something like a new remberg trial or
995
1:49:00 --> 1:49:08
2.0 as everybody's saying um should be heard so how do we get um a hearing and preferably in a
996
1:49:08 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction]ive manner rather than new remberg which was proactive after it all happened we're still
997
1:49:15 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction]orm with this and we need to stop the deaths so there's the multi-million
998
1:49:19 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction]ion and i know it's difficult to answer but where do you see it because a lot
999
1:49:24 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction]e who aren't lawyers aren't police officers or been involved in prosecutions like you and me
1000
1:49:30 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction]n't managed it yet especially when we've got somebody like
1001
1:49:34 --> 1:49:41
reiner fulmich um with his german and uh sort of english contacts if he can't manage it there's a
1002
1:49:41 --> 1:49:47
massive problem and the second point was to do again with the care quality commission report in
1003
1:49:47 --> 1:49:[privacy contact redaction] that the rule of law and we've had this discussion you and me
1004
1:49:53 --> 1:49:59
previously um when i said that i felt the rule of law had collapsed you were adamant it hadn't and i
1005
1:49:59 --> 1:50:[privacy contact redaction] that but it's certainly sidelined at the moment for anybody who doesn't know
1006
1:50:05 --> 1:50:11
what the rule of law is um it enshrines the history of law going back to the year dot
1007
1:50:11 --> 1:50:16
where we're all equal in the eyes of the law nobody's above the law etc etc but it certainly
1008
1:50:16 --> 1:50:24
seems at the moment that the governments are above the law because they have somehow frozen
1009
1:50:24 --> 1:50:31
the rule of law even in british or in the uk law um they stopped the coroner's court they took the
1010
1:50:31 --> 1:50:37
powers of the coroner's court they stopped uh post mortems which would as happened in germany with
1011
1:50:37 --> 1:50:[privacy contact redaction] pointed out that 5g had a big effect on hypoxia which was wrongly
1012
1:50:44 --> 1:50:49
diagnosed as covid as well as everything else they burnt the bodies and burnt the evidence
1013
1:50:49 --> 1:50:53
so has the rule of law collapsed and how do we get the court case we need
1014
1:50:53 --> 1:51:[privacy contact redaction] of all the rule of law well first of all can i just say
1015
1:51:02 --> 1:51:07
it can't be uh proactive as opposed to retroactive because they've already been
1016
1:51:08 --> 1:51:13
in my opinion there've been about 20 million deaths around the world from these injections those are
1017
1:51:13 --> 1:51:[privacy contact redaction] the short-term deaths not counting uh effects of sterilization possible sterilization and uh
1018
1:51:22 --> 1:51:28
long-term deaths medium-term deaths they're not included 20 million so far that's far in excess
1019
1:51:28 --> 1:51:34
of the numbers you're looking at for the uremburg trials isn't wouldn't you say ana absolutely
1020
1:51:35 --> 1:51:43
absolutely um yeah i mean going going back to the rule of law um the the point i make to people is
1021
1:51:43 --> 1:51:50
that the rule of law hasn't changed essentially you know it's it it says what it says and it's
1022
1:51:50 --> 1:51:57
i think especially in terms of medical experimentation and informed consent i think
1023
1:51:57 --> 1:52:04
our laws pretty much cover the situation fairly well it's not great because you can't find
1024
1:52:04 --> 1:52:10
the governing law in one easy document you have to look around and draw it from various sources
1025
1:52:12 --> 1:52:19
but the law as currently written does govern these um these live human experimentation pretty well
1026
1:52:19 --> 1:52:26
as in it defines them condemns them and provides for redress for them the problem we have with our
1027
1:52:26 --> 1:52:31
rule of law is that as i've established for the public record nobody's taught law at school
1028
1:52:32 --> 1:52:[privacy contact redaction]n't been for generations that includes doctors includes politicians and you know um the
1029
1:52:38 --> 1:52:[privacy contact redaction]e who we turn to to uphold the rule of law can't uphold it
1030
1:52:44 --> 1:52:51
because they themselves are clueless about it so i don't think it's the rule of law that's at fault
1031
1:52:51 --> 1:52:59
or um lacking it's the people operating the rule of law right that's at fault now in terms of
1032
1:52:59 --> 1:53:05
process what that means in reality is this for example how do we you know you're saying how do
1033
1:53:05 --> 1:53:[privacy contact redaction] well take it on a a case by case basis you know you've got the case in
1034
1:53:13 --> 1:53:19
america in india rather where i think there are now two or three murder cases being brought
1035
1:53:19 --> 1:53:26
by parents on behalf of their child for dying from the vaccine so the first one i heard of was a
1036
1:53:26 --> 1:53:34
23 year old guy who died because he had to take the vaccine to take his train journey
1037
1:53:34 --> 1:53:40
and the mother is now suing the police over there for failing to investigate the crime
1038
1:53:41 --> 1:53:45
bill gates you know the train company etc and i think there's now another murder case launched
1039
1:53:45 --> 1:53:[privacy contact redaction]arts the ball rolling right because you've got somebody bringing an actual
1040
1:53:51 --> 1:53:[privacy contact redaction]er case now what we've got in this country are people who have approached me for example
1041
1:53:57 --> 1:54:04
several of them saying i want to bring murder charges i'm convinced my um you know um brother
1042
1:54:04 --> 1:54:10
or whatever has died um as a result of the vaccine now practically speaking how do you prove
1043
1:54:11 --> 1:54:19
a the causation because we can't get post-mortems um autopsies being done the bodies are being
1044
1:54:19 --> 1:54:[privacy contact redaction] of all how do you actually prove the causation in those
1045
1:54:25 --> 1:54:[privacy contact redaction]ances secondly going to the police clearly the police aren't um taking these
1046
1:54:32 --> 1:54:[privacy contact redaction]aints so what does an individual do to actually start the process of bringing a
1047
1:54:40 --> 1:54:[privacy contact redaction]ances the advice i've been giving to people is please go and get
1048
1:54:46 --> 1:54:[privacy contact redaction]-mortem for contact the coroner and go to the police right but even then even if
1049
1:54:55 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction] the money to bring legal proceedings and that's the
1050
1:55:00 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction]or in that a number of people have said to me i'd love to bring a case and i've said
1051
1:55:06 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction] for you for nothing over the period of two or three or four years however
1052
1:55:11 --> 1:55:18
long it's going to take um i can't work for you on my own we would need expert witnesses court fees
1053
1:55:18 --> 1:55:25
etc so you better raise some money and that's usually the last you hear of people they say
1054
1:55:25 --> 1:55:32
can't afford it there's no crowdfunding for it so how do you actually get these cases off the ground
1055
1:55:32 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction]ion i've been saying to people we need a you know a fund of money so that anybody
1056
1:55:39 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction]anding in a case actually gets support from the community
1057
1:55:45 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction]e don't want to take standing most people don't actually want
1058
1:55:49 --> 1:55:[privacy contact redaction] hearing so if we've got civilians who are prepared to do it we
1059
1:55:55 --> 1:56:02
ought to support them but you know that's why i think rhino ended up doing court of public opinion
1060
1:56:02 --> 1:56:08
because the same kind of barriers how do you actually get these cases into a properly convened
1061
1:56:08 --> 1:56:[privacy contact redaction] of the lawyers are despairing because we're all struggling
1062
1:56:13 --> 1:56:23
with the same thing not that that's very helpful answer i'm afraid there's no i hope no i i think
1063
1:56:23 --> 1:56:29
yeah you you've answered i think from a an expert perspective what a lot of people are frustrated
1064
1:56:29 --> 1:56:34
with um we're all in the same boat with it and i had a case um i put a case together that
1065
1:56:35 --> 1:56:[privacy contact redaction]able friend of mine and i was hopeful and i went through my service
1066
1:56:42 --> 1:56:48
with this colleague we're really good friends and i got nowhere with it it was dropped basically um
1067
1:56:48 --> 1:56:[privacy contact redaction] told the party line which is the government line um and i put her around my mp i've put them on
1068
1:56:55 --> 1:57:[privacy contact redaction]es um as was put in the chat by an ex-murder squad detective colleague
1069
1:57:03 --> 1:57:09
of mine earlier on ian humphreys uh you're looking at defenses against the persons act
1070
1:57:09 --> 1:57:[privacy contact redaction] in public office etc uh everything has been thrown at them and they are
1071
1:57:16 --> 1:57:22
hiding per new remberg behind government government says it's okay we were just following orders
1072
1:57:23 --> 1:57:29
that's what they're doing all right well before we get too depressed about this i helped set up two
1073
1:57:29 --> 1:57:[privacy contact redaction] some advice on how to set it up in the uk and what it needs in the simple
1074
1:57:35 --> 1:57:[privacy contact redaction]e in the uk giving ten dollars a week each into a legal fund
1075
1:57:41 --> 1:57:48
entirely doable 100 000 a week ten dollars or ten pounds a week a million dollars a week coming in
1076
1:57:48 --> 1:57:[privacy contact redaction] need somebody to organize health alliance australia has been set up to do
1077
1:57:54 --> 1:58:01
that and it is funding cases and in america some of you would have heard some five weeks ago warn
1078
1:58:01 --> 1:58:[privacy contact redaction] said over [privacy contact redaction]em and the other thing to
1079
1:58:06 --> 1:58:14
realize is there are many cases pushing back and there are notices of liability there are there is
1080
1:58:14 --> 1:58:21
no deniability available to these officials they will be they will be held to account so there are
1081
1:58:21 --> 1:58:26
many many cases happening we don't know all of them and then when there's a successful case
1082
1:58:26 --> 1:58:33
they get settled on confidential terms so we don't find out about it so all we do is don't despair
1083
1:58:33 --> 1:58:38
we keep going with the work that you're doing and that i'm doing that all of us here are doing
1084
1:58:38 --> 1:58:44
there's no stopping full stop because every person we talk to makes the differences bobby kennedy told
1085
1:58:45 --> 1:58:[privacy contact redaction] year it takes five messages from five different people to wake somebody up
1086
1:58:52 --> 1:58:[privacy contact redaction] your message might be the fifth you don't know and as more and more
1087
1:58:57 --> 1:59:04
babies die as more and more athletes die as more and more people die of sudden death more people
1088
1:59:04 --> 1:59:[privacy contact redaction]e model is that the sheep will die the wolves will live
1089
1:59:13 --> 1:59:19
our job is to see how many sheep we can wake up so on we go that's why we're here two three times
1090
1:59:19 --> 1:59:[privacy contact redaction]ions ana here's we've got a wolf here you're a wolf ana
1091
1:59:25 --> 1:59:[privacy contact redaction] all of you are wolves here on this call go ana peter peter's a wolf too
1092
1:59:31 --> 1:59:[privacy contact redaction]even wolf hi ana thank you so much for this information
1093
1:59:37 --> 1:59:43
i'm trying to understand so sasha latipova was talking about the fact that there have been
1094
1:59:43 --> 1:59:[privacy contact redaction]s uncovered that really showed that all the big pharma companies in the united states
1095
1:59:48 --> 1:59:52
are regulated and governed by the department of defense or fall under the department of defense
1096
1:59:52 --> 1:59:59
and that the department of defense has been contracting with other pharmaceutical sub
1097
1:59:59 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]ors who are regulated by the chinese communist party and so the fact that we are not
1098
2:00:06 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]e analyze the vials because it's federal property and it's classified for
1099
2:00:12 --> 2:00:20
civilian and military use meaning it meets classification as a weapon is is pretty concerning
1100
2:00:20 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]ion is legally if we want military tribunal but the department of defense or the
1101
2:00:26 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]ituting this on the civil population how the heck do you get
1102
2:00:33 --> 2:00:44
anywhere oh spot on ana absolutely spot on i couldn't work out why for the whole of 2020 i
1103
2:00:44 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]onewalled from all my military contracts by raising the
1104
2:00:50 --> 2:00:[privacy contact redaction]s by raising the alarm and then when toad calendar came out with the evidence that actually
1105
2:00:55 --> 2:01:01
this is a collaboration between the dod and the uk ministry of defense and the increasing evidence
1106
2:01:01 --> 2:01:07
that that's indeed the case no wonder the military have been ignoring me and you know others who've
1107
2:01:07 --> 2:01:[privacy contact redaction]le and precisely that why would they bring military tribunals
1108
2:01:14 --> 2:01:22
and expose you know what's going on um now what from where i've been sitting the armed forces
1109
2:01:22 --> 2:01:[privacy contact redaction]ies here in the uk which to me as a soldier means this i have a duty to uphold the
1110
2:01:31 --> 2:01:[privacy contact redaction] and if i become aware of any breaches i must report them into my commanding
1111
2:01:38 --> 2:01:[privacy contact redaction] report it to the military police and the military police
1112
2:01:45 --> 2:01:[privacy contact redaction]igate and i've kept keep going in to the military saying so all these reports i'm making
1113
2:01:53 --> 2:02:00
what's happening and i'm getting nothing and it's the same for the other military people i know who
1114
2:02:00 --> 2:02:07
are reporting it in and getting nothing so again the reality how do you how do you actually you
1115
2:02:07 --> 2:02:12
know progress this when you know that you're up against the people who are actually perpetrating it
1116
2:02:15 --> 2:02:[privacy contact redaction]um i'm sorry i don't have all the answers this is
1117
2:02:19 --> 2:02:28
they knew and and and everybody these people who are doing this evil the psychopaths we know just
1118
2:02:28 --> 2:02:33
go back if you don't stop asking the question who is doing this we know who's doing this just go back
1119
2:02:33 --> 2:02:[privacy contact redaction]erland the game is clear the point is the people in queensland the people
1120
2:02:40 --> 2:02:47
around the world the vouchers of this world are doubling down because they know they will suffer
1121
2:02:47 --> 2:02:[privacy contact redaction]e rise up so they they're getting ever more desperate
1122
2:02:56 --> 2:03:02
this has to and you're in you know you're in the you're in the war game if you look why would they
1123
2:03:02 --> 2:03:07
suddenly give up and say yes you guys all right because then we'd come hunting them so and and
1124
2:03:07 --> 2:03:12
that's why i say to people don't threaten them with hanging we might hang them but don't threaten
1125
2:03:12 --> 2:03:18
them with hanging because then they've got nothing to lose well also death penalty has been abolished
1126
2:03:18 --> 2:03:27
right yes in many cases that's correct that's correct all right avarie you muted avery
1127
2:03:29 --> 2:03:34
okay anna uh thanks for being here today and educating all of us on the details of the
1128
2:03:34 --> 2:03:42
nuremberg code especially the [privacy contact redaction]ion you is at our thursday
1129
2:03:43 --> 2:03:49
symposium medical martial law which todd calendar and many others helped put together
1130
2:03:51 --> 2:03:57
you know reiner fulmerich was one of the last guests who last speakers he mentioned he had
1131
2:03:57 --> 2:04:07
already filed in europe i'm just a little bit unclear as to who he filed against he said that
1132
2:04:07 --> 2:04:13
once that um went a little bit further down the road then he would bring that and bring that case
1133
2:04:13 --> 2:04:[privacy contact redaction]ates so are you aware that he has filed for sure and who did
1134
2:04:21 --> 2:04:28
he file with i'm sorry every i i actually didn't hear rhina speak so i'm not sure what case he was
1135
2:04:28 --> 2:04:35
referring to as far as i was aware rhina's bringing several cases i knew that he was acting um for
1136
2:04:35 --> 2:04:42
uh professor bodak at some uh one point but i don't i'm not actually aware of which cases he's
1137
2:04:42 --> 2:04:49
issued i didn't hear his update maybe someone else in the group heard well the impression that i think
1138
2:04:49 --> 2:04:54
some of us had was that this was the big one you know the one that where he was going to go after
1139
2:04:56 --> 2:05:[privacy contact redaction] term it that way but i'd have to go back myself and listen to
1140
2:05:04 --> 2:05:[privacy contact redaction]s were to to clarify but i thought this was his reference to having just
1141
2:05:11 --> 2:05:19
recently filed in europe a large case i mean a really really major case did he say what it was
1142
2:05:19 --> 2:05:25
abri so that's the thing i would have to go back i mean the impression i had was this was something
1143
2:05:25 --> 2:05:32
that he had been working on for as you know the past more than a year for sure and had been
1144
2:05:32 --> 2:05:38
discussing how it was going to be done eventually and this was it that this was filed in europe
1145
2:05:38 --> 2:05:45
and that once that went through um you know uh further down than if it was successful then he
1146
2:05:45 --> 2:05:[privacy contact redaction]ed states but i'd have to go back i mean it's all
1147
2:05:50 --> 2:05:[privacy contact redaction]ing of the symposium also and in fact abri recording the
1148
2:05:58 --> 2:06:[privacy contact redaction]ing was released this morning i think yes i'll dig out the link or someone will have the
1149
2:06:04 --> 2:06:10
link on this call who attended the symposium but anyway in fact it went to the moderator so abri
1150
2:06:10 --> 2:06:16
you've got a link see if you can find it and put in the chat yeah what what i'll do charles is i
1151
2:06:16 --> 2:06:[privacy contact redaction] the uh link because i've already downloaded it and forwarded it to a number of
1152
2:06:20 --> 2:06:[privacy contact redaction]e but i will go ahead and send a link to you momentarily off of my desktop and then you can
1153
2:06:27 --> 2:06:32
put it in chat if you don't mind and it's well worth watching it went for one and a half hours
1154
2:06:32 --> 2:06:37
one three quarter hours and then that was before it went in the breakout rooms there's excellent
1155
2:06:37 --> 2:06:42
information and i think you that's right in fact did you manage to get on because there were
1156
2:06:42 --> 2:06:47
technical problems yeah thank you i got on to the main symposium but i couldn't get then get out
1157
2:06:47 --> 2:06:54
into the breakout rooms so there's a problem all right every will give it every will give all of
1158
2:06:54 --> 2:07:00
you the links i hang about we'll put in the chat all right thank you avarie claire thank you
1159
2:07:00 --> 2:07:02
you
1160
2:07:05 --> 2:07:[privacy contact redaction]ing presentation it's great to have a really good
1161
2:07:10 --> 2:07:16
legal mind on this i'm a medical journalist based in australia though i sound british
1162
2:07:17 --> 2:07:23
one thing i've done is read the public assessment reports for the three vaccines the uk public
1163
2:07:23 --> 2:07:29
assessment reports which were available very early on in the rollout this is what the mhra looks at
1164
2:07:30 --> 2:07:[privacy contact redaction] to write the logic of their decision does it help our case that there is evidence
1165
2:07:36 --> 2:07:[privacy contact redaction]arted the rollout so rather than trying to look for bodies and
1166
2:07:41 --> 2:07:45
prove they've killed does it help our case that those show quite clearly that
1167
2:07:46 --> 2:07:[privacy contact redaction]ributed to many organs in in in mice and rats and that um you know they
1168
2:07:56 --> 2:08:[privacy contact redaction] in class genetic vaccines that we hadn't used before and there was no
1169
2:08:02 --> 2:08:[privacy contact redaction]opped transmission so does that help our evidence this was known
1170
2:08:07 --> 2:08:13
right at the beginning it's there in black and white in uk government documents well yeah
1171
2:08:13 --> 2:08:18
absolutely particularly given the risk benefit analysis right because as you say one of the
1172
2:08:18 --> 2:08:[privacy contact redaction] be for the overall benefit and not arbitrary etc um and did that
1173
2:08:25 --> 2:08:32
did that report also um mention the bio distributions study from japan no it doesn't
1174
2:08:32 --> 2:08:39
but it that's phisor isn't it mentions that um that more information has been given to the mhra
1175
2:08:39 --> 2:08:45
but it's not reported there they just say it goes went to the liver and they don't get but clearly
1176
2:08:45 --> 2:08:[privacy contact redaction] been given that information but it's not reported on and and the other thing i
1177
2:08:52 --> 2:08:[privacy contact redaction] want i i think um there's kind of you know the definition of vaccine was changed in 2021 to
1178
2:08:59 --> 2:09:04
make these these things be vaccines in fact vitamin c is now a vaccine it's anything that
1179
2:09:04 --> 2:09:[privacy contact redaction]em um i think i'm sure this is um i probably someone more expert on this than
1180
2:09:11 --> 2:09:17
me but i think that this this meant didn't it that these could be evaluated as vaccines and if things
1181
2:09:17 --> 2:09:22
are evaluated as vaccines it's my understanding that there are far less rigorous tests required
1182
2:09:22 --> 2:09:[privacy contact redaction]ance you don't need to do carcinogen um whether they cause cancer whether they can affect
1183
2:09:26 --> 2:09:32
the genome um and so because they were defined as vaccines even though they were gene therapy
1184
2:09:33 --> 2:09:38
they were they were pain they were able to play lip service to oh we're testing these but in fact
1185
2:09:38 --> 2:09:45
it was a slight of hand yeah so i i am i have written an article on this uh which i would like
1186
2:09:45 --> 2:09:49
to send to you anna um i've been trying to get it published in the uk mainstream media i'm working
1187
2:09:49 --> 2:09:54
through newspaper after newspaper being ignored um i'd like to send it to you and you might read it
1188
2:09:54 --> 2:10:[privacy contact redaction]ease okay okay can i just pick up on that definition though one of
1189
2:10:04 --> 2:10:[privacy contact redaction] things i challenged one of the first multi-disciplinary group groups that i worked with
1190
2:10:10 --> 2:10:18
here in the uk heart the health advisory research team um and yeah one of the first um issues i
1191
2:10:18 --> 2:10:27
raised with them is that i the these products did not meet the definition as set out in um either
1192
2:10:27 --> 2:10:34
vaccines the legal definition of vaccine or indeed human medicine because what's happened is that
1193
2:10:34 --> 2:10:[privacy contact redaction] these were given temporary emergency um approval under regulation 174 of
1194
2:10:41 --> 2:10:46
the human medicines regulations um on the basis as you know that there were no other treatments
1195
2:10:46 --> 2:10:55
available etc now it doesn't the definition of a human medicine what these mrm rna technologies
1196
2:10:55 --> 2:11:[privacy contact redaction]ually meet the definition of a medical device and a medical device um is should be
1197
2:11:03 --> 2:11:11
regulated under the medical devices regulations um and that falls within the consumer protection
1198
2:11:11 --> 2:11:19
regulations so my firm belief is one of the reasons that they you know wanted to avoid
1199
2:11:19 --> 2:11:24
it being called a medical device was because of proceed consumer protection was much much higher
1200
2:11:24 --> 2:11:30
and they couldn't get it through any kind of emergency approval when i raised that with um
1201
2:11:30 --> 2:11:35
the team at heart a number of them immediately said oh yes you know that's we thought about that
1202
2:11:35 --> 2:11:43
as well and indeed um antonietta gatti i think her name is um nanotechnology specialist from italy
1203
2:11:43 --> 2:11:[privacy contact redaction] her professional opinion that this technology was in fact you know meeting the
1204
2:11:48 --> 2:11:55
definition of a medical device but they patent lawyer there keith johnson i think his name was
1205
2:11:56 --> 2:12:01
was absolutely furious and was adamant that you know these were properly defined and that you know
1206
2:12:01 --> 2:12:06
only a patent lawyer could say whether or not these were properly defined so it seems that
1207
2:12:06 --> 2:12:12
it's still an argument out for debate but i would take it i would take it to that argument i would
1208
2:12:12 --> 2:12:[privacy contact redaction]e's opinion on is that because it was lipid nanoparticles is that their
1209
2:12:18 --> 2:12:23
argument that it's a device it's a very small device yeah because it's two parts basically
1210
2:12:23 --> 2:12:30
you know it has the lipid encapsulating it so that it can deliver its payload to the nucleus
1211
2:12:30 --> 2:12:[privacy contact redaction] yes or it's a device with two components in it right a bit like um you know um how the
1212
2:12:41 --> 2:12:47
you know like an insulin pump that kind of you could argue couldn't you that the the um
1213
2:12:47 --> 2:12:53
astrazeneca is a that's a virus delivering the dna but you're saying because the virus is a
1214
2:12:53 --> 2:12:57
natural thing and you're saying the lipid nanoparticles are sort of man-made a device
1215
2:12:57 --> 2:13:03
is that the argument certainly with the mrna ones i'm not so sure about the other types
1216
2:13:03 --> 2:13:10
that's delivered by a virus yeah the yeah yeah i should put a little um brief note together for
1217
2:13:10 --> 2:13:15
you all so that you can see the definitions and maybe as a group you can determine whether you
1218
2:13:15 --> 2:13:22
think you know which which that definition it best suits and therefore which regulatory framework
1219
2:13:22 --> 2:13:32
should be invoked thanks that's me done thank you thank you claire all right everybody now
1220
2:13:32 --> 2:13:[privacy contact redaction]ions and comments and we're tracking very well on time
1221
2:13:36 --> 2:13:42
well done all of you we've got 11 minutes to go then we can then the telegram group is available
1222
2:13:42 --> 2:13:48
tom rodman has put the link into there um anna can we touch on this question
1223
2:13:48 --> 2:13:[privacy contact redaction]ion to the two of you from what we have learned today
1224
2:13:55 --> 2:14:04
new legislation is coming in that is the same as military orders from hitler what do you say
1225
2:14:04 --> 2:14:[privacy contact redaction]ors should do come on here we are this is medical
1226
2:14:10 --> 2:14:[privacy contact redaction] you well i think it's very very clear on the um the analysis
1227
2:14:19 --> 2:14:[privacy contact redaction]ed in the new york trials here of the medical cases that the overriding duty and
1228
2:14:24 --> 2:14:29
responsibility for the patient safety the individual patient safety rests with the
1229
2:14:29 --> 2:14:35
physician and the physician alone not with the government um not with you know anybody within
1230
2:14:35 --> 2:14:45
the military such as hitler um you know and um ivy the expert witness you know um repeatedly
1231
2:14:45 --> 2:14:50
brings everyone's attention back to the Hippocratic oath as evidenced for how long that
1232
2:14:50 --> 2:14:[privacy contact redaction] at the physician's duty overriding duty is to the
1233
2:14:55 --> 2:15:01
individual patient um so i personally think there's no debate and the whole argument that
1234
2:15:01 --> 2:15:[privacy contact redaction]er a medic to set aside the medic's own professional
1235
2:15:07 --> 2:15:[privacy contact redaction] is um you know entirely uh against the rule of law and against
1236
2:15:16 --> 2:15:22
our code of ethics and morals um and that must be the case because otherwise any individual
1237
2:15:22 --> 2:15:[privacy contact redaction]ered to do something against their professional code and they wouldn't
1238
2:15:27 --> 2:15:33
have a choice about it i mean it's the same with solicitors right if the law society ordered me
1239
2:15:34 --> 2:15:[privacy contact redaction]anding up and saying no it's you know i'd rather leave
1240
2:15:40 --> 2:15:46
and i'd rather not work as a solicitor than you force me as a professional to be in breach of my
1241
2:15:46 --> 2:15:[privacy contact redaction]s so that would be my firm view excellent stephen yeah i agree with
1242
2:15:56 --> 2:16:[privacy contact redaction]ances where so the doctor is trusted by the patients
1243
2:16:04 --> 2:16:10
and his duty is to the patient and nobody can interfere in that relationship in my view
1244
2:16:11 --> 2:16:[privacy contact redaction]ances
1245
2:16:14 --> 2:16:22
but it's clear to me that any doctor who's worth the name should have realized that this was all
1246
2:16:22 --> 2:16:30
wrong all of it was wrong and they didn't so what happened clearly they were very well educated
1247
2:16:32 --> 2:16:38
so that so that does anybody want to argue the proposition that doctors should be simply doing
1248
2:16:38 --> 2:16:43
what the government wants them to do with their patients does anyone i can't imagine here but
1249
2:16:43 --> 2:16:[privacy contact redaction]ephen is i'm a i'm a lawyer i'm a legal strategist i'm strong on this
1250
2:16:52 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction]ors would there follow these new rules in california they should leave
1251
2:17:00 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction]oves that's what will stop this nonsense and as pamela norris says in the
1252
2:17:06 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction] say no everyone in this group if they felt like it if they felt like making a difference
1253
2:17:13 --> 2:17:18
should write to the general medical council in the uk because they're trying to bring in
1254
2:17:18 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction] called uh what is it good medical practice i think and one of the
1255
2:17:25 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction]ed not to oppose government policy or words to that effect not as
1256
2:17:33 --> 2:17:41
blatant as that but it's essentially doctors should not um well well the quainsland rule
1257
2:17:42 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction] not not should not correct no it's outrageous it must be okay everybody so
1258
2:17:49 --> 2:17:53
there's the clear position steven last questions to you in the last seven minutes and then i
1259
2:17:53 --> 2:17:[privacy contact redaction]even do you have any closing questions before we finish
1260
2:17:58 --> 2:18:03
and then we can go to so and then maybe you and i can work together and uh write to the um general
1261
2:18:03 --> 2:18:10
medical council absolutely that'd be good wouldn't it for sure i'd love to do that i've been trying
1262
2:18:10 --> 2:18:16
to get to get to the gmc for years it's such and then publish it everywhere well everywhere we can
1263
2:18:16 --> 2:18:[privacy contact redaction]ic so we'd need to um make it a good now there's one is
1264
2:18:25 --> 2:18:34
there's one issue that's relevant everybody to the merrill nass hearing um and the and the
1265
2:18:34 --> 2:18:40
anna you've mentioned to this group some dramas that you're facing but let's talk with merrill
1266
2:18:40 --> 2:18:48
nass and sam y and general medical council and these medical boards as a matter of law
1267
2:18:49 --> 2:18:[privacy contact redaction] a judge who is biased
1268
2:18:56 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction] turn our minds to the moment say this whole idea of natural
1269
2:19:02 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction]ice is not followed anna because it's not being followed by
1270
2:19:10 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction]s they're biased they're they're fraudulent judges will do it rhinophomics
1271
2:19:16 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction] been bought off but what's the consequence if there's no natural justice
1272
2:19:25 --> 2:19:30
what do you mean as in what's our what's our lawful redress or what do you think is an
1273
2:19:31 --> 2:19:36
what's our lawful redress that's that's yes that's the lawful redress is that ultimately we would
1274
2:19:36 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction] you know ultimately under common law if the current
1275
2:19:43 --> 2:19:[privacy contact redaction]ess but the issue of course is is how um how that any kind
1276
2:19:50 --> 2:19:55
of decision from that is taken seriously and implemented especially by for the likes of for
1277
2:19:55 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]e the police and this is where you know i think the lawyers in all the countries are falling
1278
2:20:01 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]ually either access the current court system with the
1279
2:20:07 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]em um because we're being stonewalled and failing typically or establishing
1280
2:20:13 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction] any follow-through um the reality is of course in the
1281
2:20:21 --> 2:20:27
what's happened in previous cases is that when people haven't had redress through the courts
1282
2:20:27 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]e's court and they've been judged jury and executor
1283
2:20:31 --> 2:20:38
executioner pretty much on the same day quite often and rough justice is handed out and the
1284
2:20:38 --> 2:20:44
job gets done and you know tribunals were set up after the war all over the world and that's what
1285
2:20:44 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]ice so i can see that happening ultimately frankly you know
1286
2:20:52 --> 2:20:[privacy contact redaction]ess otherwise people will take matters into their own hands
1287
2:20:58 --> 2:21:05
at some point and all over the internet people are talking about rising up and taking out arms and
1288
2:21:05 --> 2:21:11
taking into their own hands and having to be pulled back by others saying you know violence isn't the
1289
2:21:11 --> 2:21:[privacy contact redaction]e are sharing images of guillotines and um you know they're baying for blood and for
1290
2:21:18 --> 2:21:[privacy contact redaction]ice so i can't see that suddenly dissipating so that's what's happened in the past isn't it
1291
2:21:28 --> 2:21:[privacy contact redaction] been forced to take the law into their own hands and Chalchewski was a victim
1292
2:21:34 --> 2:21:40
of that i think that's the one i always quote that's the one i quote you know they were protected
1293
2:21:40 --> 2:21:46
up until a few days before their trial from uh you know that when suddenly their inner circle
1294
2:21:46 --> 2:21:[privacy contact redaction]ing them no longer they were vulnerable they were lynched out of their
1295
2:21:51 --> 2:21:55
house and they were brought to trial i think christmas day morning weren't they and executed
1296
2:21:55 --> 2:22:02
in the afternoon the helicopter came down yeah i can't remember his wife's name was Alina was it
1297
2:22:02 --> 2:22:11
it was she had lots of shoes like Imelda Marcus yeah yeah all right and the comment is made
1298
2:22:11 --> 2:22:16
let's not generalize well we're not generalizing about all doctors we're talking about doctors
1299
2:22:16 --> 2:22:[privacy contact redaction]ers and we're talking about doctors who refuse to see the evidence
1300
2:22:22 --> 2:22:27
and we're talking about doctors who refuse to stay informed well chance is it and uh we made
1301
2:22:28 --> 2:22:34
the point when you sign on a when you sign on a new phone contract or you sign up to use an
1302
2:22:34 --> 2:22:[privacy contact redaction]e service there's 42 pages of regulatory terms that you consent to the fact that you don't read
1303
2:22:44 --> 2:22:51
them doesn't mean you're not bound by them so the fact that this information is available no doctor
1304
2:22:51 --> 2:22:58
can say i didn't know no doctor can say that and i i'm absolutely generalizing now so
1305
2:23:00 --> 2:23:[privacy contact redaction] it's now time to go it's eight it's two and a half hours people on this caller in no doubt in
1306
2:23:05 --> 2:23:[privacy contact redaction]ors have not done the right thing in the last two and a half
1307
2:23:11 --> 2:23:[privacy contact redaction] so i think so the people who've done vaguely the right thing
1308
2:23:21 --> 2:23:[privacy contact redaction]ors i would say that's a rough guess
1309
2:23:28 --> 2:23:35
well there's [privacy contact redaction]ralia and they're finishing
1310
2:23:35 --> 2:23:42
it's an interesting question whether what percentage of stress
1311
2:23:43 --> 2:23:49
thank you yeah thank you very much all right i think it's fine i'm sending her we are going
1312
2:23:49 --> 2:23:58
everybody and uh thank you for being here it's
